115: Stop Making Condescending Jokes

Roula (00:00)
I have a question for you.

Rosie (00:01)
You're not recording. yes you are! Sorry, keep going! Shh! Shut up Rosie. I'm sorry! Go again.

Roula (00:05)
you ruined my intro.

Rosie, my question is, how do you react?

And feel when you are sitting with people joking with you, but their jokes are kind of condescending, belittling. And if you say something, they think, you're making a big deal out of it. Have you been in this situation?

Rosie (00:48)
Constantly. I think it's the norm to make condescending, offensive, mean, inconsiderate jokes. It just seems to be the norm. I don't find it funny. It's just not. But am I very good at calling people out on it? No, because I find that very uncomfortable. But it's something I want to get better at because why do we have to be condescending? Why do we have to put people down for it to be funny?

Roula (01:14)
This is a good why someone would put the other down as a joke.

Rosie (01:18)
Do you

think the jokes we make ruler recondescending to each other?

Roula (01:24)
They're not because they're mutual.

Rosie (01:26)
Yeah, yeah.

Roula (01:28)
And we both have a full understanding of why we're making this joke. The condescending jokes that like you're in a room and someone, ⁓ she's always so silly. ⁓ hey, stupid, how are you today? You know, the crazy thing is that people around laugh.

Rosie (01:35)
Yeah.

Ugh.

⁓ yeah?

Roula (01:54)
It's like this one making this bad joke, insulting joke is the star of the room and everyone is laughing.

Rosie (02:01)
Do you think people actually find it funny? Or are they just laughing because they think they should?

Roula (02:06)
When they laugh, the joke cannot be to them. Then in the focus on that person, I think even when they don't agree, okay, let me rewind. I don't think people reflected enough on these kind of jokes. So the people laughing, they're laughing because they want to keep the fun, the atmosphere, they find it funny. And if they really take the time to think, is this fair to

Rosie (02:22)
Hmm.

Roula (02:36)
make a joke insulting someone else that we laugh about it? Maybe they will rethink it.

Rosie (02:43)
Or even jokes, this is a bit darker, but even jokes about, people make jokes about killing themselves when someone's annoying them or things like, not because they're suicidal, but as a funny, they go, poof, point a pretend gun at their head and do that, or make a joke, I'm gonna go away and cut my wrists, and I think that's not funny. I don't find that funny. No, I'm like, why would?

Roula (03:06)
That's not fun, yeah. But this is not

where I want the conversation to go.

Rosie (03:11)
Okay, sorry, but that too, people,

sorry, but that pisses me off. But yes, back to condescending jokes.

Roula (03:18)
How do we deal? Like how should we react when someone make a joke that is insulting us?

Rosie (03:28)
Maybe just be silent, just look at them, be silent. They can be uncomfortable.

You need some guts to do that though, don't you? Or you say, maybe pause, don't laugh and go, I don't find that funny.

Roula (03:33)
Mmm.

Yeah, because it might be funny for you, but it's not funny for me. And that person will say, you're making such a big deal out of it. you can't take a joke.

Rosie (03:42)
But what are you?

Yes, yeah.

Yeah. Then what do do?

Roula (03:50)
Maybe what we can

say, repeat and say, this is not a joke. I don't find it funny.

Keep it short. And you know, I have two people in my life. Well, they don't live with me here in the Netherlands. They each one live in a different country. I grew up with them. I'm not going to name them for obvious reason, because I don't want to. I don't have two mystery people and they constantly get their fun in the room out of making fun of me.

Rosie (04:09)
Two mystery people, yes.

Mmm.

Roula (04:26)
And I started thinking there are two things. Either they're so damn jealous and they can't wait to put me down or they have so much low self-confidence that the only way to lift themselves up is putting someone else down because I cannot find another reason why a person would make condescending jokes, belittling jokes.

Rosie (04:38)
Hmm

Do you think they're trying

to be mean? What do think their intent is when they make these jokes?

Roula (04:56)
I don't believe they're innocent. It just came up to them. I think they have something in them that like to belittle others to help them lift themselves up.

Rosie (05:08)
You know what, I just had a thought and I feel like it's a very clever thought. Maybe it's the only way they know to make connection with other people.

Roula (05:17)
⁓ that also could be true.

Rosie (05:17)
They're trying to make connection.

I still don't like it, but perhaps that's what they're doing. That's how they connect with others. Laughter brings people together. And for whatever reason, a lot of people, I think, growing up in their households, that's the kind of humor the parents put the kids down.

Roula (05:22)
Yeah, that could be.

That's true. The siblings, the parents. It starts at home. It starts with the siblings before it goes anywhere else. And we are not taught how to put boundaries for these kind of jokes that we don't like. Because everyone else thinks we're being drama queens or kings.

Rosie (05:51)
Hmm.

sensitive.

Roula (05:56)
Too sensitive. Fuck it. If you're hurting me with your joke, go away.

Rosie (06:00)
Yeah, bugger off. I don't like it.

Yeah.

Roula (06:05)
I wonder really how many people are thinking of this topic now that they're listening to us, because I'm sure we all experience this.

Rosie (06:15)
Yeah, I want to go back to these two mystery people who like to make fun of you or whatever it is. Have you ever pulled them up on it and why do you still call them friends?

Roula (06:27)
⁓ no, they're not friends. They're family. Yeah. I have, I, for one, I did. And this person got so defensive that I couldn't make this person understand that this joke that you think is funny does not work for me. And I want you to stop.

Rosie (06:29)
⁓ okay.

god.

Mmm!

Roula (06:50)
If you don't have a good joke or respectful or really funny joke, just don't joke with me about me. And that person could not at all accept what I'm saying. And I felt it's going to escalate. The other person, no, I don't see this person. I haven't seen this person for maybe, I don't know, 25, 26 years, 25 years. But whenever there's contact, there are these insulting jokes.

Rosie (07:18)
Uggh... ⁓

Roula (07:19)
And I'm choosing my battle. If I see them in person, now I'm determined when in person. Yeah, I'm going to stand up for myself and put boundaries. I'm also willing to walk away from whatever gathering it is. Because this also will give a sign to other people. If you're laughing at these jokes against one person, you're a fucking bully because use your brain.

Rosie (07:22)
Right.

Yeah.

Wow, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, think about what the joke actually means, totally. We're not being sensitive, we're laying a boundary. I don't find that funny. Whether it's them being condescending to us or another person or a group of people or a culture that happens a lot here.

Roula (07:59)
Yeah.

Example of these jokes so that it becomes a bit more real for because now I have an example in my head. Let's say Someone did their hair at the hairdresser a woman a friend and she came in and instead of saying Or someone I compliment this person. you have lovely hair and then the other person with condescending jokes would say Yeah for once how come what do you have special occasion to do your hair? Since when you you look so good whatever

Rosie (08:03)
Mmm.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes! Yes!

Mmm,

that's such a common thing to say. Yeah, what the fuck is that about?

Roula (08:33)
You know?

Yeah.

Rosie (08:39)
I people just need to, I think, think, I'm saying I think a lot, people need to think more about the words they are saying. They just come out of our mouth sometimes, but if you stop and think, you go, that's actually really hurtful.

Roula (08:40)
Yeah.

Yes. And you know why I have this question, Rosie?

Rosie (08:54)
⁓

Why?

Roula (08:57)
Because I thought I would be going somewhere and I will see both persons. And I got nervous because I knew. I mean, if it's one of them with condescending Joe, can you imagine both of them in the same place? And I started getting nervous and thinking, OK, I need to have a strategy. They must not get to me. I'm stronger than this and I will not accept it. I'm not going anywhere, so I don't have to see them anymore. But yeah, I got nervous. My nervous system was warning me.

Rosie (09:22)
Yeah.

Roula (09:27)
that being present at the same place with these two persons, it's not going to be fun all the time. Some moments will be really difficult. And this is why the question popped into my mind.

Rosie (09:34)
Mmm. Mmm.

That's a good question, Roula

And I'm sure you would pull me up if I was telling jokes that were condescending. I hope you would. Because I know we're very playful. And sometimes we do say things like, I'll say, oh, you're so old. You're just so forgetful. So it sometimes is hard to draw the line. Like, where does that become condescending? I definitely don't say it in a condescending way. Well, I don't think I do. But then...

I'm sure someone else could say it and it could come across as condescending. I like, it's all very confusing.

Roula (10:18)
⁓ That's a good question. That's a good question Well, if you call me out every time you say I'm old or forgetful at certain point I'll had enough from you saying it. It's not funny. Yeah. so Things can happen once I don't look in my household We are very constant about this. We don't make insulting jokes and if someone in the house make this kind of joke you feel

Rosie (10:27)
It's not funny. Yeah.

Mm.

Roula (10:46)
that the atmosphere in the house is not nice anymore because there is one person hurt, the other person thing that making a big deal out of it. And we are clear in our communication that we don't want this kind of jokes that are not funny. You know, but when it happens once in a while. I don't know, I don't know. It's just sometimes. It's.

Rosie (10:49)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Roula (11:15)
it's coming out in a not nice way.

Rosie (11:18)
Yeah... Hmm...

Roula (11:21)
Yeah, but let's go back when you say to me, for example, you're too old or you forget. You're laughing. I'm laughing. I'm recognizing that you are being an asshole. So that's why I'm exactly this is why I'm saying it's mutual. You're you're telling me or I'm telling you this joke and we call in each other out on it. But when I can't call you out on it and you get defensive or the same for me, this is the problem.

Rosie (11:32)
Yeah, and I'm not being serious. Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Right, you gotta be receptive. If someone says, hey, that's not funny, you go, whoa, okay. Like I'm sorry I made you feel that way, like I didn't even think about it. Maybe something like that. I don't know what you should say in that situation, but you need to listen. Otherwise you're invalidating the other person's feelings. If you said to me, Rosie, I'm sick of you making jokes about me being old and forgetful, I would need to take that on. ⁓ Rue, I'm just joking. You're being too sensitive. We always joke about that. Well, maybe, but.

No, you're my friend and you just said it's not funny. So I, okay.

Roula (12:26)
So I think this will bring us to our next episode, self-awareness.

Rosie (12:28)
Ooh, okay.

Okay, all right, everybody, let us know about what you think about jokes. Yes, and we will talk about self-awareness.

Roula (12:33)
Yeah, shall we go to the next F? All right.

See you in

the next episode, bye.