249: Long version - Why We’re Pausing the Podcast (PTSD, Burnout & Being Real)

Roula (00:11)
Okay, have a breath.

That's been a while. I missed you.

Rosie (00:17)
Mmm. I missed you too. It's been very strange.

Roula (00:23)
I did not sit behind my computer the entire time.

Rosie (00:26)
wow, yeah. Wow.

Yeah, usually you'd be doing things, huh? Mmm, mmm.

Roula (00:33)
yeah i didn't who's

gonna start do you want to start

Rosie (00:41)
I don't know. Are we going straight into an episode

or we talking? What are we doing? Okay. Am I stopping the recording? Yeah. Yeah. Keep it in case. Yeah. This all feels so, such a strange feeling to end something that we started with such excitement, right? And we still, we still care about it, but

Roula (00:44)
No, no, first let's talk about how we're feeling. No, no, leave it, leave it.

Yeah.

Rosie (01:05)
sometimes the right choice isn't the easy choice.

Roula (01:10)
Are you on board with this choice? Is this also how you feel? Because I have a lot of feelings which I will share after.

Rosie (01:10)
You know?

Yeah, I think...

⁓ so

many feelings. I think like...

I can't guarantee that I can show up at my best every time. And I know that is taking a huge toll on how you enjoy or not enjoy it, right? Because if your co-host is turning up in a bit flat or whatever, and it's happened enough times now for it to not just be a one-off, yeah. I think, yeah, because we spoke, was it maybe a month ago, maybe more, and we were like,

I was saying I'm really overwhelmed, but let's just see how we go. And we reduced it to three episodes.

Yeah, I it's I feel like this isn't a forever close the book, we're done. Walk away. It doesn't feel like that to me, but it feels like this is like for now, maybe it is a good idea to stop or pause.

Roula (02:14)
I'm so glad you said that. And I'm glad we didn't talk for a couple of weeks because it allowed me to have some clarity.

Rosie (02:22)
Mmm.

Roula (02:24)
For me too, it's a good time to take a break.

Rosie (02:28)
Mm.

Roula (02:30)
The thing is, I have so many episodes still in me.

Rosie (02:35)
Yeah, we have so much to talk about. That's who we are. Yeah, think that's...

Roula (02:37)
Yeah. Yes.

And my episodes, the things I can only talk about them with you. I cannot do them on my own podcast because, ⁓ yeah. I mean, you're my buddy on these episodes.

Rosie (02:48)
you

It's not the same, it?

No.

Roula (02:59)
Even when I said maybe I'll continue alone, it came from a place of not stopping and waiting for you to come back. That was my feeling. If I continue, then you will come back and everything will feel natural again.

Rosie (03:05)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (03:16)
But stopping, taking a break is good for both of us, I think.

Rosie (03:20)
And

maybe it's an opportunity to think how we can make it work and be sustainable. Because I would love for this to just keep going and going and going. And maybe it means we do seasons and we have extended breaks. I don't know. Maybe it's just, I have no idea what it would look like, but I think it sounds like both you and I don't want to just flush it down the toilet. That's it. We've done it and we're never coming back.

Roula (03:38)
Thank

We have something, we built something so beautiful and we still like it. Just life is happening now in different ways. ⁓ It really crossed my mind, Rosie, that we are independent podcasters.

Rosie (03:48)
Mmm. Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (04:03)
All the work we're putting in it is our time, time from our lives, our families. The only reward is the lessons.

Rosie (04:09)
Mm? Mm.

Yeah, which...

Roula (04:17)
And why we're doing this is because we want to create awareness. We have so much to talk about. We have things to talk about that people needs to listen to and know.

Rosie (04:28)
Mm.

Mm.

Roula (04:32)
At the same time, we don't have a boss or a production company who's telling us you have to deliver. But we acted like we have this.

Rosie (04:37)
Mm.

Yeah, yeah, which in a way is silly. In some respects, it's good because we're taking it seriously of high standards, but also why? There's part of it that you can take it to the extreme and yeah, it can, it's like an obligation instead of this is something I really want to be doing. And I think we both wanted to be doing it the whole time, but there is that element of I have to do it.

Roula (05:09)
Yes. And this element, I have to do it when it comes in the middle of what's happening in our lives. It feels like, how am I going to cope with it? I have to deliver, but yet so much on the other side is happening. Where's my priority? And I felt this with you. And I think

Rosie (05:19)
Right. Yes.

Right,

Roula (05:29)
Because of you, I allowed myself also to sit back and think, OK, so what are my priorities?

And this is the podcast is a priority for me. But at the moment, I, I'm sure I feel confident. it is when, when I say give it a break, it reassures me rather than say, we're going to stop stopping. It scares me because

Rosie (05:41)
Mm.

Yeah, yeah, that

is scary. I'm not ready to say this is done and that boundary, we're not doing it anymore. Like that's not how I feel. And I'm very conscious that the way I've been turning up has, you know, it sounds like that's been a big part. I don't know if it's the only part, but a big part of, you know, why you've been having these thoughts of, yeah, what do I want to do here? Do I want to continue?

And that's not good, so I'm glad you said something because that's not sustainable and it just would have not... I don't think it would have ended well, you know? And I don't want it to end in a yucky way. Yeah.

Roula (06:28)
That's true.

Yeah, because I felt I'm pushing you. And.

Rosie (06:35)
Yeah, and I...

I'll let you finish, yeah.

Roula (06:40)
Let me see...

Why I felt I'm pushing you is because I didn't want us to give up.

And I felt that there's so much in you. You just don't see it and you can bring it.

At the same time, I realize that this is not the time for her now. I can. If it's not the right time, then it's not. I have to also accept it. I think I was not accepting that you need something else.

Rosie (07:13)
But I think you

kind of came to that conclusion before me, but I think it's the right one because I mean, since we last spoke, so you know how I sat having a hard time and I'd booked in to see the psychiatrist and I had to wait, blah, Well, I've since been diagnosed with PTSD. So it kind of explains a lot of the challenges I've been having and I've started a new medication. I'm sleeping better.

I don't have to nap every day. So this has just been the past two weeks. Like, so I'm, and that honestly has been the biggest roadblock in my life for years now, but in the past, maybe six months, I don't know if it's been longer. You would know as someone who's seen me, how I turn up, it's just been getting worse to a point. It's like, okay, I really like need proper help now to improve that. So.

think, you know, hopefully it was never that I didn't want to do the podcast, just life was exhausting. It was not, I don't want you to ever think, I don't want to talk to her, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't care. It was just, that's how I was showing up everywhere.

Yeah.

Roula (08:28)
I didn't think for a minute that you don't care about the podcast. I sense something is going on. just, I only see you when we record. I couldn't really tell. Yeah. Yes.

Rosie (08:33)
Good, yeah.

Yeah, it's just a... Right. And I don't

share everything. I'm very bad at doing that. So it's hard.

Roula (08:47)
I also understand

why you don't share because you're showing up. You don't want to bring something negative. You want to show up for the episode. You don't want to let me down. Feel there is a disappointment. So there's a lot of pressure on you every time you show up when you were not in the mental space for it.

Rosie (08:52)
Hmm.

Mmm. Mmm.

But

then that took its toll on you. So I think it's good. We've come to the realization, hey.

at this point in time, this isn't, yeah, this isn't the right thing. I, yeah, and honestly, already I feel a huge change. So I'm optimistic about that. I don't know what it's going to look like, but I saw the psychiatrist. When did we last see each other? Was it two weeks? More, there's more. Three weeks. Yeah. So it was, it would have been just after like a

Roula (09:16)
Yeah, you're looking after your health now, something more important.

Two, three weeks ago?

Rosie (09:41)
And what have been the day after we last saw each other? That's when I saw the psychiatrist and then I saw her again yesterday and then I'm seeing her again in three weeks. So like I'm going all in, like we need to get this sorted. there's medication changes, psychology, whatever bullshit needs to happen. But even just after a couple of weeks, it's been positive. And to learn that.

you have PTSD it is your nervous system working against you. Really I couldn't sleep without the light on. My jaw was constantly tight, my body was tight like I would have flashbacks of dad's accident just awful things and I didn't realize until I started this medication it calms your nervous system. I didn't realize how much I was suffering. My body when I started this tablet which sounds crazy it just went

And I went to bed ruler before midnight. I slept all the way through.

It's been good. It's a lot, but it's been good. Yeah. So all these things I've been feeling and the depression and the this and the that and not sleeping and blah, you know, it's all trauma. And so it's validating. like, I'm not broken. There's actually shit that's contributed to this. Of course there is, you know.

Roula (10:42)
You have been on survival mode and you didn't know what's going on.

Who the fuck do you think you were broken? Who the fuck is stupid? What the fuck with you? I'm not broken.

Rosie (11:07)
Maybe I just needed

to book a session with you. So anyway, that's been very positive. So I think that can only be a good thing for wherever the podcast goes in the future. Like whenever you and I work on ourselves, I think that benefits both of us. Yeah.

Roula (11:21)
Yeah, ⁓

Yeah.

I also have been in intensive therapy since three weeks with my psychologist. Yeah. It's been very, very intense. Like it drains me because I have to work very, hard in this therapy and also bringing up a lot of trauma, a lot of things that which I'm

Rosie (11:33)
True, yeah, because you found the new, yeah.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Roula (11:51)
were working also towards some EMDR for these painful memories. So, yeah, for me also, it's been I've been showing up with a smile on my face and at the same time, I'm in such a melancholic state. Yeah.

Rosie (11:54)
Yes, yeah.

Yeah, and it's

almost like that visual, you know, a duck on the surface of the water is calm, but underneath their feet are going crazy, which is life that's happening for both of us, I think, in different ways, different things, but yeah.

Roula (12:17)
Yep.

Yeah, different ways. Also illness,

looking after sick, a sick person in the house, the kids. Yeah, I'm juggling a lot and I refuse to say I'm juggling a lot because I mean, everybody is juggling a lot. ⁓ But I said something the other day to my sister and brother-in-law. They were asking me if I can pick up and bring the kids, et cetera, to school.

Rosie (12:26)
You're juggling a lot, yeah.

You are.

Tch!

Mmm.

Mm.

Roula (12:50)
I told them I can. And I told them, because they were saying that they're busy, they're sick, I don't know. And then I told them I can. And you know what? I need to slow down, because I think I'm going to have a burnout from the family matters. And after I said this, Rosie, it's like, my god, this is it.

Rosie (13:12)
Yeah, fuck.

Roula (13:14)
them family stuff is gonna cause me a burnout.

Rosie (13:21)
Mmm.

Roula (13:21)
I

don't know if I said that before I sent you my message that I want to stop or after, but this happened at the same time. Yeah, I realized that what the fuck? Yes, this is how I feel. It means there is some truth to it. And things have been also bumpy between me and Rianto. We're both feeling like not connecting.

Rosie (13:30)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Roula (13:48)
So much going on. my emotions were very high when I sent you the message.

Rosie (13:50)
Mmm.

Can I say though, you worded it beautifully. You must have put thought into how you sent that. I was, yeah, and I could tell. And it was, you did that really well, definitely. Yeah, cause that's a hard thing to say. Even if it's somebody, you know, like you and I, we were very honest with each other and we do have hard conversations, but that's a big fucking thing to say.

Roula (14:02)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yes, and I think this is what I missed to pay attention in my relationship is that I can say the hard thing, but it's how I say them that they have. has the impact. And with you, I made effort to say them the right way. With him, I screwed up.

Rosie (14:38)
Not so much. Yeah,

bugger. We can't get it right all the time. Yeah.

Roula (14:41)
And that made things escalate at the atmosphere

and everything was so horrible.

So we're saying we're not stopping. We're taking a break. No matter how long it is.

Rosie (14:54)
Yeah, and I think the episode,

yeah, and that's okay. So I think it can be a reminder for people as well that it's okay. sometimes you need to do, like I think it sounds like it's for both of our mental health and the bigger issues are outside the podcast, but it's impacting the podcast and how we show up.

and we are so interconnected, right? So if I'm off, You can't, like, how is one person meant to carry it? And then it takes a toll too, if you're showing up and putting on your happy face and then Rosie's not feeling good, but you're not feeling good or both of us aren't feeling good or so.

We just...

Roula (15:39)
I love this podcast so much.

Rosie (15:41)
Yeah, same. It's really special. I was in the shower last night and I was like, I think I'm going to go back and listen to every single episode. And then I went, I wonder how long that's going to take because we've got so many.

Roula (15:44)
yeah.

Very long.

But you know, also it's given me more energy, the idea to publish these dormant episodes on my personal podcast.

Rosie (16:07)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Roula (16:10)
just also to feel like I finished the task that I have waiting for me there, ⁓ that I put down when we started our podcast. And also it gives me the feeling that some freedom that I can choose which podcasts I want to work on in agreement with you, of course.

Rosie (16:15)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Yes!

Yeah, and there's no judgment of, you're choosing your podcast over our podcast. Like, you could do both. You could do either one. You could do one like or none. Yeah, we're both individuals, but individuals who love each other and like working together, but it's not.

Roula (16:39)
Mm.

or none.

Rosie (16:53)
can look different and yeah it'd be cool I've just been mulling I don't have any suggestions but over like well how could the podcast maybe we need to shift it a bit so it's there's less pressure when we turn up like right now you and I are just chatting there's no pressure to crack a joke or be be upbeat you know which which was a big part of of how we show up on our podcast right

Roula (17:20)
But I never felt it's a pressure. It's just we showed up exactly who we are.

Rosie (17:26)
We did, but I, well, maybe it was just me, but I did feel.

Like I don't think I would be talking as slow or as calm as this if we were recording a typical episode. So maybe that's something for me to reflect on.

Roula (17:39)
You know what it is?

Because it's so important for us to deliver something fun and positive and deep to the listener. It's a lot. So when you didn't feel positive or fun, this is where probably, I'm assuming, you felt the pressure of showing up in a certain way because this is the brand that we want to be known for.

Rosie (17:49)
a lot.

Hmm ⁓

Mm.

Mmm.

Roula (18:06)
And also, we want to be our authentic selves.

Rosie (18:11)
Yeah, yes. And I was listening to, what was it? It might have actually been the Mel Robbins podcast. I hate, but sometimes love episodes. But they were talking about authenticity and her guest, I think it was Seth Godin, was talking about it and he's like, it's not authenticity that you should be focusing on for your audience. It's consistency. How you show up is consistent.

Roula (18:11)
So it's okay.

Rosie (18:38)
And it's like, well, isn't that the same? But no, it's not because showing up consistently is like, okay, on our podcast upbeat, positive, but honest, difficult conversations. But if we did, and it is authentic, both you and I were who we are. But if we showed up on the episode, like if I showed up going, just reflecting my mood, it wouldn't be enjoyable for the listener, you know? Yeah. So.

Roula (19:05)
No.

Rosie (19:07)
it's hmm i don't know where that was going but you know what i mean i think yeah

Roula (19:12)
Yeah,

Rosie (19:14)
we have, people love who we are. It's not just the topics. They are here for.

us and our dynamic and how fresh we are. That's what makes it. So I think if we

If we're not the full on, you know, we're really happy and funny and on fire today. You can't force that. Hey, you can't force me just cackling and having a full on Rosie laugh like you.

Roula (19:41)
Okay, I'm going to ask you, how do you feel about publishing this as just we're talking episode, not really. It's just who are we in real? Okay, this is the long version. The shorter version, we can just record now something quick to tell the listener quickly why I chose now to take a break, why you chose to take a break and that we will see them.

Rosie (19:55)
Yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

Roula (20:10)
Until then, we want them to enjoy the episodes we already published. Yeah. So we make a short one. taking a break. And the long one, if you want to know more, listen to this.

Rosie (20:14)
Yeah, because how many have we got? haven't. Yeah.

Okay,