122: Is It a Bad Thing To Be Selfish in Times Where Self Care is Brought Back to Society

Roula (00:00)
Rosie, here we go. We're going now into something that I've never talked about in details before and I'm curious about your opinion.

Rosie (00:08)
okay.

Roula (00:22)
What do you think about egoism? Someone who's egoist?

Am I pronouncing it correctly?

Rosie (00:34)
Yeah, but it's not something I say. Egotistical, we might, they're very egotistical. They've got a big ego.

Roula (00:35)
ego is what? Egotistic. ⁓

no, not ego, not ego being selfish, egoist. I have the word in French, self selfish, selfish. Yes.

Rosie (00:48)
selfish, selfish, okay.

I think we need to redefine the word. It's a tricky one because selfish has very negative connotations. And you know, I use it in conversations like, they're so selfish, so self-centered. But then I'll find myself saying, you need to put yourself first. And is that not being selfish? Like, I'm such a hypocrite. So I'm confused.

Roula (01:12)
I love this!

Rosie (01:22)
What does it mean to be selfish, Roula? And is it good or bad?

Roula (01:27)
I'm asking you what is it? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just want you to continue, continue your train of thoughts.

Rosie (01:29)
⁓ fuck, what was the question again? What were you asking me?

continue. ⁓

Yeah, I think it's usually used in a negative way, but I think it can be positive because we need to get better at putting our own needs first. Not in a way that is malicious and harms others, but in a way that, for example, I cancelled our recording last week because I put myself first.

I could have gone, letting, you know, I'm letting Roula down. We commit to five episodes every week and it's really important and we need to stay ahead. And I could have gone, yep, I'm just going to do that. But I was feeling so sick. You heard my voice message. Like my brain was all over the place. I wasn't in a good head space. So in that case, I put myself first. It probably was a selfish decision, but you know what? I'm proud of that.

So selfish, I think, can be good and bad.

Roula (02:36)
is a bad example? can you think of one or at the moment you're only in a positive selfishness?

Rosie (02:38)
Ummm...

I'm in a very positive kind of frame of mind today. It's good. I've been a little bit down in the dumps the past couple of weeks. So I'm enjoying this positivity. What's an example of selfish when it's bad? ⁓

That's a good question. Maybe if I were to accuse you of being selfish, like in a negative way, maybe it would be because my feelings are hurt. whereas if I was looking from your perspective, I'd say, good on you, putting yourself first, maybe. Can you give me an example of where you would say someone's selfish?

Roula (03:10)
Yeah.

I'm not even able to think of a bad selfish. The thing that I think of when it comes to bad are silly example, like I'm selfish. I'm eating my watermelon melon and not sharing it. Stupid selfish. ⁓ Or, or, ⁓ she, I've had these examples that I used to hear when I was little. Like she went, she bought a dress for herself, but not for her daughter. She's so selfish.

Rosie (03:24)
Yeah! ⁓

So selfish. Mmm.

yeah.

Roula (03:50)
And it's funny how I remember my mom.

I remember my mom saying things such as a mother must never be selfish. And I saw my mom sacrificing herself for everyone else. I see my sister behaving like this. Now she's changing, luckily for her, that putting other first, this is a sign of not being selfish. Looking after yourself is selfishness. It's unacceptable.

Rosie (04:07)
Yeah.

You

Roula (04:28)
It hurts others. It's not the way. So this is how I was raised. And when I became a mom, I struggled with this because I felt selfish in many ways. Tired, I want to sleep. I felt selfish. And I did not give it to myself because a mom must not be selfish. And I'm giving now an example on a mother because this is so vivid in my head. ⁓

Rosie (04:42)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Roula (04:55)
Other example of being selfish, as you said, is that if there's an appointment and. OK, I'm going to this is really vulnerable, what I'm going to say. So if I'm going to babysit our nephews.

Rosie (05:07)
Okay, okay.

Roula (05:15)
And I say no, I feel selfish because why am I saying no? Why can't I babysit them? But then I say I'm selfish because I don't have the energy for that today and I have to look after myself. So yes, I accept it if you say I'm selfish. I don't care. I must be selfish sometimes.

Rosie (05:18)
Hmm.

So maybe selfish needs to be more of a neutral word. When you were talking, I put it in Google, because I'm like, what is actually the definition? It says, it's to do with a person, action, motive that lacks consideration for other people when they're concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. Profit or pleasure.

Roula (05:52)
⁓

So

how can we put a negative, so say no for babysitting, for example. So I'm putting my pleasure, my profit, my self as priority instead of serving others by, in this example, babysitting the kids. And why is this wrong?

Rosie (06:17)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

I don't think it is. But reading the definition, they've used the word personal profit or pleasure. So that almost is to say, maybe if you said no, it's because you want to. ⁓

Roula (06:26)
Mm.

Rosie (06:37)
No, go on holiday and eat chocolate and go to the naked spa or whatever. But again, is that is that a bad thing? Like you're looking after yourself. So I I'm really confused on this. have thought that people are selfish before and I maybe it's to do with when we perceive someone to have a lack of compassion.

Roula (06:38)
Enjoy!

Rosie (07:03)
and are just very cold. But maybe those are the people who are best at setting boundaries. Maybe.

Roula (07:10)
Wow, that's really good. Also, in your definition to build on what you're saying, setting boundaries and the positive and the negative. You mentioned in the definition a lack of consideration. That's so right. I think when we choose for ourself not considering the big negative impact on the other. Yes, that I can say this would be selfish. Let's say I must

I'm asked to babysit because they have to go to the hospital, for example. And I say, no, this is extreme kind of bad selfishness because I'm not taking in consideration the need and the necessity of doing it.

Rosie (07:41)
Right. Right.

⁓ this is interesting.

But this comes back to you, it's that innate desire to care for, isn't it? But I understand if they need to go to hospital or they're very sick and they really need help, I think that context is important. So if it was someone, you know, in that context, if it was someone I really cared for, I probably would compromise a bit on my own needs because I really love them. I know they're suffering.

And in that case, is worth it to me. I care for them and yes, I'm a bit run down, but I would regret perhaps if I looked back and go, I could have helped and I didn't. That was so selfish.

Roula (08:35)
Yes.

Yeah, this is a reflection. All the examples that come to my mind are so relating to motherhood.

Rosie (08:44)
Well you're a mum, you're in the thick of it. It makes sense.

Roula (08:46)
It's crazy. Yeah.

For example, if my son asked me to go to the beach, but on that day I want to go and do shopping for myself. say, no, I have something. Am I being selfish instead of putting my son first and putting myself first?

Rosie (09:00)
Maybe it's

more to do with patterns of behavior. So if I am constantly not considering other people's needs, that probably is really selfish. That is my pattern, my behavior, whatever, pattern of behavior. It's who I am. I'll say, no, I don't want to do that. You might be having a really hard time, Rula, and you need to have a chat. And you've said to me, like, do you have time for a five minute phone call? And I go, no, I'm busy. You know, I'm...

doing something. I have every right to say no but if I do that every time a dear friend like you says I really need you well number one are they really a friend but also yeah that is probably an example of being selfish.

Roula (09:44)
⁓

I love what you're saying. have another question because I see that the time goes so fast when we're having these topics.

Rosie (09:49)
shit, okay. It does, and you know what? I don't feel like

I am any clearer on what selfishness is, and if it... I am? I've left with more questions. I need to listen back to this episode. Okay, so are we pausing, or is it for this episode? ⁓ okay, alright.

Roula (09:56)
you are. are. No, no. I mean, your explanation is beautiful. I do have a question. No, no, no. For this episode, my question,

I wonder and don't ask me where this is coming from, probably from place of envy. Yeah.

Rosie (10:15)
Ooh, okay,

Roula (10:18)
People, single people living alone in their own space, their apartment, doing their own life without someone to share. Are they more selfish than the ones who taking care of others or having families, etc?

Rosie (10:34)
Wow, that's a really good question.

⁓ yeah, I guess there's not that built in requirement to consider other people's needs as much when you're single because it's just you in that home environment. I guess it depends how much you're home, how much you socialize.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where to go with that. That is such an interesting question. What are your thoughts?

Roula (11:09)
There's a reality to it, as you said, if you don't have ⁓ anyone to consider around you. Yes, you're making up your mind, you're eating whatever you want to eat, go in sleeping, everything at your own turn on your own time. And I wonder when this change, what's the impact of this? That being able to adjust, et cetera. And I'm saying this in place of envy, because sometimes

I love it. So when there's no one at home and I have few hours for myself, I'm like a headless chicken because I don't know what to do. I want to like take on this alone time so much for myself that and I think I'm so getting passionate. I'm like in a robe, wearing a robe of selfishness. I can do whatever I want now.

Rosie (11:44)
absolute freedom.

You're so excited you're hitting the microphone. ⁓

Yeah,

well maybe you ⁓ value it and enjoy it more because it is such a rare commodity. I think you have the opportunity to be better at being selfish because you have the chance every day to practice being selfish. It's probably very difficult when you're in a relationship or have kids, that sort of thing, but there's an opportunity every single day for you to make the active decision to be selfish.

For me, it's almost like the default, it's just me. So if I was to come into a new relationship, God, it would be a shock to the system. All of a sudden, there's these other person's needs I have to think about. Shit, and I have to be very deliberate in my decision making and the consequences that those decisions are going to have.

Roula (12:58)
Having this conversation with you and hearing you what you're saying, it makes me want to say that it's hard to give up your me selfish time to share it with someone. So maybe it is time to look at relationships differently. Of course, when there are no kids, because it's nice to keep having.

Rosie (13:13)
Yeah.

I alone time is important.

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of judgment. I have so many things to say. We'll keep it brief. But I think there is a lot of judgment. You you'll hear stories about couples who perhaps sleep in separate beds because that's what works for them. And I hear people, we all think millennials are very progressive.

no, there is judgment. they can't be in a loving relationship if they're sleeping in separate beds. And I think why the fuck not? They are so clear on what works best for them that they are making that brave, outrageous, according to society, decision to sleep in separate beds. And they're probably much happier than the average couple. I'm sure there are couples who were in separate beds that aren't happy. That happens too. But relationships...

Why can't we do them differently? You don't have to share everything 50-50. You don't have to do everything together. You don't have to have the same friends. I think it's in... Yeah. ⁓

Roula (14:22)
think it takes so much courage to be selfish in

certain things in a certain way. And I like to praise it. If this safeguards your mental health, your well-being, your relationships, why not make it normal and foster it in a healthy way?

Rosie (14:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, your relationship with yourself is so important. Don't push that to the side. I think the healthier your relationship is with yourself, hang on, I have something to say, hold that back a minute. The relationship you have with yourself is perhaps, I'm not sure, more important or one of the most important factors in having a healthy relationship with another person.

Roula (14:52)
Go listener, be selfish.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. This is number one.

Rosie (15:16)
And on that note,

⁓ sorry, yep, we're continuing still.

Roula (15:20)
On

that note, we're finishing on that note.

Rosie (15:23)
We have so much to say this week. We're just this is what happens when we miss a week of recording which is That being good episodes, what was the original question Selfish selfish. Yes. Let us know listeners is being selfish good or bad give us an example of good selfishness bad selfishness or Should it just be neutral? Why do we have such emotion attached balance? Yeah

Roula (15:26)
Yeah!

Yes, I love that. Is it okay to be selfish? Something like this? Yes.

balance,

Rosie (15:52)
That's about balance.

Roula (15:53)
And telling someone they're selfish, it's not really an insult. We have to find a better way to express our feelings when someone acts in a way we think it's selfish.

Rosie (15:57)
Mmm.

Well, here we go. I'll give a compliment.

Rula, I admire how selfish you are in setting boundaries and looking after yourself. I think you're really good at that.

Roula (16:16)
going to give you another example of compliment. Rosie, I really appreciate that you chose for yourself with your selfishness and cancelling last week and I'm glad you rescheduled very quickly afterwards. You were considerate. No, I'm teaching you the lesson. ⁓

Rosie (16:31)
didn't reschedule did I? I see so that was a backhanded

compliment stuff you! Ugh! Rude! But that

Roula (16:42)
yeah. ⁓

did we talk about this in our compliment? Compliment, giving a compliment? No, no, that's a good one. OK.

Rosie (16:46)
We didn't! Backhanded compliments,

that is a good one. Alright, bye everybody, we need to stop talking.

Roula (16:51)
Bye everybody!