129: Being Stubborn for No Good Reason

Rosie (00:01)
So for those of you who don't watch on YouTube, I'm drinking out of a plastic measuring jug. It's about, how big is that, liter? Yeah, and it's old and scratched up. And Rula, what are you drinking out of?

Roula (00:15)
I'm drinking from my absynthe glass.

Rosie (00:18)
It's like this gorgeous glass, like crystal glass, very elegant. And here I am with my plastic measuring jug.

Roula (00:26)
Yes, very 1920s and yours is timeless, timeless.

Rosie (00:32)
I don't know about that, do

Rula.

Roula (00:48)
Rosie.

Rosie (00:50)
question.

it hits a bit close to home because I think I suffer from this a lot and I only had the realization a couple of weeks ago and I was a little bit confronted by it and I want your take.

Why do we get stubborn for no good reason? Our mind is set on something and actually there's no good reason why. Do you do that?

Roula (01:19)
do sometimes.

Rosie (01:21)
Hmm. Why? They're stupid! Why would we do that?

Roula (01:25)
Before we start with the why, can you tell me why you came to this realization?

Rosie (01:31)
I'm gonna

bore you. Okay, I'm gonna try and do it so you don't tune out. So I'm replacing the electrical system in the van and there was a big decision I had to make if I was going 12 volt or 24 volt and I was just set in my ways I want to go 24 volt because meh and everyone else or nine out of ten people every ten people I spoke to would say no go 12 volt and there were reasons behind it and I was like no no no no

And then one day I went, you know what? Life would be easier if I went 12 volt in terms of the components I could buy. So why am I being so stubborn? And you know why I think I was being stubborn?

Roula (02:13)
Tell me why.

Rosie (02:14)
Because I just like to be different. I don't want to blend in with the crowd.

Roula (02:17)
Mmm!

Rosie (02:21)
And I...

Roula (02:21)
Okay, blend in

with the crowd. It's a reason of being stubborn and that happens so often. I think I had this when I was younger because I don't want to blend in with the crowd. I acted in a stubborn way. How does it, so when you were talking to people, they're telling you do 12, don't do 24. What kind of interaction was it that they noticed you're being stubborn? Did they call you out on it? Did you feel, what am I doing?

Rosie (02:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm. Mm.

Oh, they didn't call me out.

They wouldn't call me out, no. And it wasn't until I spoke to an electrical engineer and he said, yeah, why don't you go 24, 12 volt? Why are you going 24? And I thought, he's an expert who really understands how DC systems work. And he knows the advantages of 24 volt. And yet he is still saying in your situation, given the budget constraints, da da da.

I think 12 volt is better. And I went away and thought, you know what, he has a really good point.

but it took him saying it and in fact he told me more than once. So it took me a while to go, ⁓ I think he's right.

Roula (03:33)
Yeah. Is it also it has to do with ego?

Rosie (03:40)
Probably. Yeah, because I know there are advantages doing 24 volt. It's just there weren't quite enough advantages in my case. And there are disadvantages for me choosing to go 12 volt that I'm going through. For example, I have to use thicker cables that cost a lot more money. However, there are a range of products I can pick from because

Roula (03:42)
You want to challenge what everybody's saying?

Rosie (04:09)
12 volt is very common, whereas going 24 volt is unusual. And so it's harder to find parts and sometimes more expensive.

Roula (04:20)
Well, here you go. That's an incredible fact, incredible set of facts that convinced you at the end. You know, it's hard because when I was, I am stubborn for no reason. I feel like I'm in this tunnel vision and so much going on. What's going on is that I want my thing the way I wanted. And that's why I'm being stubborn.

Rosie (04:28)
I don't

Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Roula (04:48)
The other reason is that don't tell me what to do. I want to do it my way. This is another stubborn for no reason. The third thing is that I want sometimes the easier and quicker solution. So I get stubborn, even though it might not be the best. The fourth reason is that I didn't check all the facts. And I'm in this bubble of wanting.

Rosie (04:51)
Yes! We're similar in that way. Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Roula (05:17)
to think in a certain direction or make a decision in a certain direction, whatever causing my stubbornness. And you know what? It takes so, for me too, it takes so much time to realize that I'm on the wrong track and I'm causing issues and arguments and I'm not sleeping at night and all these kind of things on my head.

Rosie (05:22)
Yeah.

Yeah!

Oh yes, yes, you're over complicating things.

but part of it for me too, there is a bit of pride or ego because I don't want to be wrong. I don't like being wrong.

Roula (05:47)
Huh.

Rosie (05:49)
Although, saying that just because you changed your mind doesn't mean your original plan was wrong. You've just seen, there's a better way.

Roula (05:50)
Mm.

truth is what I believe and how I see people and want to see myself is that when people change their minds with the new facts, with the new information, I feel that these are lovely people. They're smart. They're flexible. They know how to adjust.

And I want them in my life. I want to be this kind of person in my life. And I say, and I say that we talked about this, not about stubborn, about waking up grumpy for me to live with someone in the same house. This person have to wake up with a smile on their face and not be stubborn. Something I have, I cannot stand stubborn people.

Rosie (06:20)
Yes, yes, yeah.

Hmm.

Roula (06:45)
There are other stuff that people would have that I can stand them. Let's say, I don't know, they curse a lot, they're loud. don't know, things that are unusually annoying.

Rosie (06:45)
That's interesting.

I feel like we did an episode

about stubbornness, didn't we?

Roula (07:00)
I can't remember. But yeah, I do feel like it. But it's okay. This is a new flavor to it. ⁓

Rosie (07:02)
I like we did. Yeah, I'm gonna put it in the show notes. I'm gonna put it in the show notes,

because people should go back and listen to that. It was quite a revelation for me. ⁓ But I think what else this ties in with, ⁓ it does, definitely. But what else this ties in with is our episode about being a control freak. Because being a control freak is very much being stubborn, set in your ways.

Roula (07:15)
But this one has a different flavor. Yeah.

set in your ways. Wow. Yeah. No, no, no. I don't want to be a person set in my ways and I don't want to have around me people set in their ways. They annoy the shit out of me.

Rosie (07:43)
Yeah, people who they have strong convictions and beliefs but they are willing to be challenged and have their minds changed. That's what I like.

Roula (07:52)
Yes, yes. But these convictions and beliefs must be, and I learned this because I wasn't this kind of person. I changed. I changed through my relationship with my husband because he really guided me. He helped me. He made me see that you can be stubborn and that's fine, but present me with the fact. Convince me with the real facts. Don't be stubborn just because of the sake of it.

Rosie (08:00)
Okay.

Yes!

Right, stubborn for no good reason.

Roula (08:21)
And of course, these conversations have,

yeah, and these conversations did make us argue because don't tell me this. Don't tell me again what to do.

Rosie (08:30)
Yeah, yeah. And it makes you

question your beliefs, doesn't it? When you're forced to be evidence-based, I suppose, present the facts and the logic behind it, sometimes you realize, it makes no sense why I'm holding this belief and being very stubborn about it. Why am I doing that?

Roula (08:49)
Yes.

What made me scared in presenting the facts is that not that I want to be proven wrong, I was scared that my stubbornness is based on nothing.

Rosie (09:05)
home.

Roula (09:06)
And how stupid would I be? What the fuck am I thinking? And for a certain period in my life, I was younger and not didn't wasn't working on myself yet as I should. I thought, no, no, I'm not going to confront myself with the wrong thing I'm believing in. So let me not search for the facts.

Rosie (09:09)
He... Yeah, true.

Wow.

Roula (09:32)
And when no one is challenging me, I didn't feel the necessity. Get away with it.

Rosie (09:35)
You get away with it, don't you? Yeah. Yeah!

But now you're older, you care about being held accountable, and that includes holding yourself accountable.

Roula (09:46)
Yeah, yeah.

It's, I don't know, I noticed, yeah, yeah, I remember we talked about this because I noticed you're stubborn in our community calls, some things. And then it really made me think, hmm, is she kind of stubborn that I don't want to be around her? Or she kind of stubborn that will change her mind when presented with new information and facts? Yes, you are this kind of person. So here we are doing this hundred

Rosie (10:05)
year.

Phew, phew!

Roula (10:16)
Plus we're almost 200 episodes, no 150. Yeah, it's surprising, not surprising, it's confronting. It's the reality how many people walk around full of stubbornness and yeah, yes. It's okay to check in, see our vulnerable sides. Why am I stubborn?

Rosie (10:19)
Well, not, yeah, not quite, but yes.

We're all full of shit, aren't we?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it's a scary exercise, but you start questioning things and go, ⁓ why do I do that? Is it serving me?

Roula (10:50)
But I don't want

to question things that look, I'm not confident in myself or when what I believe. So when I question my things, I don't want to be again, be invulnerable now. When I question my thing, I don't want to go all in. I need to understand why my belief is based on something, whatever it is. And I don't want to go, yeah, you're right.

Rosie (11:14)
That in itself is hard to figure out.

Roula (11:18)
I'm

wrong, you're right. I don't want to go in this way because even the person who's challenging me can't see something from my point of view. Because I'm not full of shit all the time.

Rosie (11:27)
Right, right. They have to be willing to listen.

Yeah, I suppose not. Yeah, yeah.

Roula (11:33)
And it could be an

emotional reason behind my stubbornness, not related to facts. And this emotional place is important.

Rosie (11:42)
Right. And I get, and sometimes that's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. What's something you're stuck? Yeah, I think so. And emotional. That's okay. We don't have to be logical all the time. What's something you're stubborn about?

Roula (11:47)
What is okay to be stubborn?

Yes, this is a big question for me because when I'm stubborn about something you won't expect. I'm stubborn about...

not visiting countries that conflict with my principles, even if there are very good reasons to visit them.

Rosie (12:24)
Okay,

Roula (12:24)
For example,

you would not convince me to get over my stubbornness not to visit Dubai.

Rosie (12:33)
Okay.

Roula (12:35)
because it just doesn't align with my principle, the lifestyle, whatever is there, the way of working, the long hours, the materialism. I would not visit Dubai even if I could have a dream trip, the most beautiful dream trip. And I'm stubborn in that. I would not go there. Another thing is that this is mostly for me, I'm stubborn in...

Rosie (12:53)
Yeah.

Roula (13:04)
accepting that my roots, my Lebanese roots, ⁓ that I should keep them. And this is a clash between me and my daughters, actually, because I'm stubborn in a way that it doesn't matter where you are born. It's the identity. It's the place that raise you, that make you happy. This is your root, not your blood root.

Rosie (13:13)
Yeah.

Roula (13:33)
And at this point, I'm very stubborn. I had this conversation yesterday in the car with my daughter, and I thought that we're hitting a wall because I cannot convince her, and she just doesn't... She's right, doesn't understand how come I don't feel that I should have roots somewhere.

And I was very stubborn yesterday with her.

Rosie (13:53)
Help me understand, help me understand

more. So are you saying ⁓ your Lebanese roots are really important or are you saying they don't define you and it's just a thing? Gotcha. ⁓

Roula (14:03)
No, they don't define me. They don't define me. It's just something

I was raised and used to it and taught.

Rosie (14:10)
Okay, yeah. Okay, whereas for your daughter it's different.

Roula (14:12)
but I can learn other routes.

Yeah, for my daughter is that, how come, how come you're like this?

Rosie (14:16)
Wow, I would have thought it

would be the opposite. I don't know why. Wow. Yeah.

Roula (14:22)
Yeah.

So this is something I'm very stubborn about, yes. How about you?

Rosie (14:31)
I don't have anything cool like that. ⁓ What's something I'm stubborn on? I like people to say thank you. I'm very stubborn on that. Not acknowledging that someone is helping you or doing something for you is just plain rude. Like you've been editing all the episodes lately.

can't remember if I used the words thank you, I hope I did, I don't remember. But I acknowledge, a nicer, oh good, even better. But I acknowledge that. You didn't, I don't think you did it because you were expecting me to say thank you. You were picking up the slack. But if I didn't say thank you to you, you would have every right in my mind to be offended. Or for example, I was delivered a parcel today. I said thank you. Doesn't cost anything to just.

Roula (15:00)
You do something nicer.

Rosie (15:25)
Acknowledge people. Yeah, that person was only doing their job, but come on. Say thank you.

Roula (15:31)
I wasn't picking

up the slack. Let me correct this. You're working your ass off on the van. Your headspace at the moment is with the recording, but the editing is a little bit too much for you now. So I'm making this balance because one day you will fill in for me. My life is not perfect. When I fall out, I will lean on you. So there is no slack in here. We're leaning on each other.

Rosie (15:34)
okay.

Mm.

Yeah.

true.

Mmm. Well,

thank you. Isn't that cool though, that we can... There's balance and we trust each other that it will balance out. I don't think you can with some people, they just take, take, take, No. No, see you later.

Roula (16:10)
Thank

We don't want them in our lives. We

know how to say no, put boundaries and choose people that lift us up or challenge us in a good way. And that's the episode for today. We're gone over our time. Goodbye. Thank you for listening.

Rosie (16:28)
Goodbye!