130: What Makes a Good Person, And Why "They've Got A Good Heart" Isn't Enough

Rosie (00:00)
Is it or cold?

Roula (00:02)
Now it's Luke Luke warm Luke warm.

Rosie (00:06)
Lukewarm. Yeah. Why

do we say Lukewarm? Where's that come from? Who's Luke?

Roula (00:13)
Look,

hello.

Okay, today, today for this episode, I have a question that came up to my mind looking, having a conversation or seeing someone in, let's say in a bad relationship, not happy. And they're not getting out of it because they say, but despite what this person is doing to me, it is a good person.

Rosie (00:42)
Okay.

Mm.

Roula (00:53)
And then it made me think, what makes someone a good person? Do we mistake good person with something else?

Rosie (01:03)
Yeah, that's true. We often justify bad behaviors, but they're a good person. They've got a good heart.

Roula (01:12)
Yeah, what is a good heart when someone hurt us in another way?

Rosie (01:20)
What?

Maybe it's that person has done some nice things for us in the past. There's isolated incidents where they have done nice things. And so we're saying, they're a good person because we've seen glimmers of good. But if you step back and see the whole picture, that ain't a good person. They treat you like trash. Justifying in our head why we're staying in a relationship to use your example. Hello, pussycat. ⁓

Roula (01:53)
He

Rosie (01:54)
that doesn't serve us.

Roula (01:56)
wants me to open the window a bit for... No, he's fine.

Rosie (01:59)
He's fine, alright. Is your cat a good person?

Roula (02:06)
This one? No. He's selfish.

Rosie (02:10)
We said selfish was good. We said that a few episodes ago.

Roula (02:14)
⁓ gosh, you're right, but no, my cat is selfish in a way. He doesn't allow me to touch him at all. Even though I give him food.

Rosie (02:21)
That's his choice. ⁓

Roula (02:24)
It's hard to record when these cats coming in and going out all the time. Yeah. ⁓ yes, so back to apologize for this. ⁓ what's make a person a good person? Yes. ⁓

Rosie (02:28)
that demanding hey yeah that's life

is that

we think they have the potential to be a good person. We're hanging on to hope. Is that what it is? ⁓

Roula (02:48)
Yeah, that

could be it too. That could be it. I see it. The thing is, I don't know if actions speak louder than words or words speak louder than action in this situation. In this situation, because if someone is being serving, let's say, helping.

Rosie (03:02)
I do. ⁓

Hmm?

Roula (03:17)
And at the same time, when they talk, ⁓ they talk with disrespect or they're condescending or they're angry all the time.

Rosie (03:25)
Mmm.

Roula (03:28)
And then we think, yeah, but look what they've done. They worked in the garden and they picked up the kids and did all these good things. Does this make them a good person when the words coming out of their mouth are not kind? And then the other hand, someone can be kind with words. And let's take the act of service, for example.

Rosie (03:34)
⁓ yeah.

and it's bullshit.

Roula (03:58)
is not serving.

because they sell words, kind words, but they don't do the work. And then people think, yeah, but that's a good person. They have a good heart. They, I don't know, donate for whatever. They help their family. But then the words that come out of their mouth are tough. And then how we make a balance, when do we draw a line?

Rosie (04:05)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm.

I don't know. Do you have an answer?

Roula (04:29)
Yeah, what I'm thinking on this topic and how it affects ⁓ my opinion is that it has to be a package. We have to have the kind words and the kind actions. And yes, sometimes when we're feeling off, sometimes we don't feel like being kind or so much going on in our lives. But we have to make a balance. And

Rosie (04:45)
Yeah.

Roula (04:59)
The other person, the receiver, must be critical on what they want, how do they want to be treated? Do you want to be in a limbo, one time nice and then because you have the, as you said, you think they have the potential of becoming a good person or they were a good person in the past, but because of so much going on in their life now, they're having difficulties. So this is why they're being rude. This is not a fucking excuse. They have to work on themselves to get over these difficulties.

Rosie (05:06)
you.

Yeah.

Hmm?

Roula (05:28)
without hurting others.

Rosie (05:30)
Mic drop. Yeah. Absolutely. the concept of balance I think is really important. None of us are perfect. We can all be assholes. stepping back, big picture, am I more often a good person or a bad person?

What if, Rula, it's 50-50? Does that mean it's a good person or not? Or a bad person? So 50 % of the time you're good, 50 % you're an asshole.

Roula (06:02)
50-50.

Yeah, this is exhausting for the person living with that. This becomes our accountability. No, do we want to be feeling up and down with this person depending on when they feel good, when they feel bad?

Rosie (06:15)
Yeah, I don't think that's a good person. ⁓

Right,

there's no stability there. ⁓ So how often can you be a... have moments of being a bad person before you become a bad person?

Roula (06:31)
No.

Can, yeah.

Rosie (06:45)
Do you get it?

Roula (06:48)
Yes. You know, each person have a level of tolerance on how much they can take. And sometimes we can take too much because we're making excuses for the other person's behavior. So it's very, yeah, we love them. And love does not ⁓ build relationships. Love can ruin relationships. Growth and working together

Rosie (06:56)
true.

because we love them.

Wow.

Roula (07:17)
Gather on the relationship. This makes the relationship grow.

Rosie (07:22)
Mmm.

Roula (07:23)
the individual work, the inner work, the putting yourself out there. This make a relationship grow. Love is just in the beginning. But to make this love grow, it's not enough to say I love you. How many people are in abusive relationship because whatever happens, the other person would say, but I love you. Take your love away. What is the word? I love you. It means nothing when when there is no growth.

Rosie (07:43)
Right?

Yeah

Roula (07:52)
So it's very individual. And I think that we're all accountable. When I am in a relationship, if I'm unhappy and I still think the other person has a potential of being good, then I'm allowing the other person to treat me like shit. So when am I going to get my shit together and demand respect? We can't change others. Never. We can work on ourselves. And at the end of the day,

Rosie (08:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (08:21)
If we feel one day it's okay, they're nice, they're kind, they had a good day, and the next day they're angry or they're being rude, or they don't want to help even, they're kind but they don't want to help, then is this the good person we want to be with?

Rosie (08:41)
Yeah, because like you said, we can't change a person. So if we are staying with someone because we believe they can get, become a better person, that is pretty foolish. If, if we go back to what we're saying about, can't change a person. So maybe what we need to be asking ourselves is if things continue like this, is that a healthy relationship for me? Answers probably no.

but we think, but they're a good person and they've been working on themselves so much.

Roula (09:14)
There are situations when people say they're working on themselves, but they're not really doing the hard work to become better version of themselves. Because working on ourselves is the most difficult thing we can do. And if we don't show progress, that's going to be also like bullshit. Selling words.

Rosie (09:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (09:39)
it's hard to say that the person is a...

is a good person when they have a dark side that they keep showing it to us.

or when we feel our needs are not met.

Rosie (09:52)
Yeah.

But then that's about us. I really don't know how to approach this topic, because who am I to judge if you're a good or bad person? What gives me that right?

Roula (10:06)
the way they're treating you.

Rosie (10:08)
Mmm.

Roula (10:09)
You have all the right to accept how, look, when people say, yeah, I mean, he or she or them, they getting angry at me now, but they're going through a tough time and they're, they're, have a good heart. They mean it well. No, no, no, When people are not kind to you, they can never mean it well. They're either you're their scapegoat, they're letting it out.

Rosie (10:23)
Mm-mm-mm.

Roula (10:39)
You're not a punching bag.

Rosie (10:41)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Roula (10:44)
And if you allow

it, it's your decision. Only if you feel unhappy, you have to make a change.

Rosie (10:48)
Ooh.

Yeah, it's on you. What are you willing to accept?

Roula (10:59)
As I said, step back, look at the bigger picture. If they're a good person with others, this doesn't mean they're a good person for you.

Rosie (11:06)
Yes,

yes

Roula (11:12)
This also happens.

Rosie (11:14)
Are they good for me? It's not really about them. Are they good for me in my life? Do they align with what I believe, with how I want to be treated?

think when we have low self-worth, we tolerate.

⁓ more and more bad behaviour. Does that make sense? Thank you.

Roula (11:40)
That's the mic drop too.

Low self-worth, yes. No, we don't want to have a low self-worth. We don't.

Rosie (11:50)
No we don't, no.

We're all worth it. Listeners, you are worth it. Don't you forget that. Say it until you believe it.

Roula (11:56)
And I f-

Yeah, every person have lived an experience in their life. And the fact they're now listening to this podcast, it means they advancing in their life. They are growing. And there is enough reason this is enough. I'm not saying because they're listening to our podcast. saying listening to conversations that are real means they have enough self worth.

to think inward and look at how they can change their life.

Rosie (12:35)
Mmm, true.

Roula (12:37)
And I'm not putting away people who had trauma, et cetera, but I don't want to repeat this always on the podcast. If you're listening to this podcast, it means you are in a growth phase. And being in a growth phase is dealing with whatever life has brought to you. And having little self-worth. I do have people in my life who have little self-worth and they're very stubborn.

Rosie (12:56)
Yeah.

Roula (13:06)
able to see how life can treat them differently.

Rosie (13:10)
Wow.

Roula (13:13)
And I'm

hopeful they will one day see that they deserve better than what they think of themselves.

Rosie (13:21)
Yeah, that's what I hope for everybody.

Roula (13:26)
Yes. And if people don't know how little self-worth look like, this is a good example. Do you allow people to disrespect you, to talk loud at you, to reprimand you, to get angry at you, to talk over you? Yes. And you don't have to make it to escalate. Escalating it, it's increase your little self-worth because it will turn back on you. The best thing to do

Rosie (13:41)
to talk over you.

Roula (13:55)
Be short, concise, put boundaries, say no, walk away. To the bedroom or wherever you want to go. I'm not saying leave. Go for a walk. ⁓

Rosie (14:02)
To the bedroom. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta

be clear. To the point.

Roula (14:10)
Yeah. A walk always help. Go for a walk. always help.

Rosie (14:15)
I find that advice frustrating because it's true. It's so simple but it's true and it annoys me. You're right.

Roula (14:25)
Because

it's so simple, you want something more complicated.

Rosie (14:27)
Yeah, like, yeah. Which makes no

sense, but yeah. Don't tell me to go for a walk. That's not gonna help. But it does.

Roula (14:37)
Here you are being stubborn without a reason, a good reason. ⁓

Rosie (14:40)
Right, yeah, what's that about?

Yeah.

Roula (14:45)
All right, shall we wrap this up? You deserve better and don't make excuses for the others to make them look good. You decide if they're good or not.

Rosie (14:47)
Yeah.

Exactly.

And on that note, we'll catch you in the next one. Bye.

Roula (15:00)
Bye!