180: Borrowing vs Lending and The Rules of Consent

Rosie (00:00)
Rula, I want to ask the question today. I feel like every episode for just forever has been you asking the questions. So it's my turn. Even though it's not really my question, I'm going to ask it. We ended last episode with you talking about the chunky gold chain you were wearing, which is actually your son's. And you said you wanted to talk about borrowing versus lending. So what do you mean?

Roula (00:25)
Yes.

Let's forget when we were young and let's forget my children who fight over clothes, not mine, a borrowed that she didn't return it. Let's forget that. Me, as a 51 year old person, I borrow from my husband and I borrowed this necklace from my son. Okay.

Rosie (00:45)
Okay.

Okay.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Roula (01:04)
so I borrowed them. They didn't lend them to me. So what's the difference between borrowing and lending? So this is why I want to talk about this, because I borrowed this and my son doesn't know yet.

Rosie (01:12)
Okay. Yeah! Here

we go. So you don't have permission. Would that not be stealing? Or is it because you plan to give it back that it's borrowing?

Roula (01:25)
Mmm.

Yes, this is everything we want to talk about.

Rosie (01:32)
But how

long is it going to be before you give it back? Like are you gonna get unchanged tonight and you're gonna give it straight back? Yeah?

Roula (01:40)
No, I'm picking him up

from school at two o'clock and he will see me wearing it.

Rosie (01:46)
And what do you think he's going to say when he notices you're wearing his necklace and you did not ask his permission?

Roula (01:51)
don't have to wait for

him because my husband said to me that's rude you should have asked him first but let me tell you why okay on saturday my son and i were going to an event and i was dressed for the event but i didn't have a jumper or something to keep me warm that suits my outfit and i found a wool what you call it shirt button

Rosie (02:00)
Okay, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Roula (02:18)
with buttons, how you call it buttoned up shirt, something like this. No, no, it's shirt like a blouse blouse in my husband wardrobe that suit perfectly my outfit. So I took it, I put it on, it looked awesome. And I said to my husband, I'm going to borrow this from him from you. He said, No, this is not how it works.

Rosie (02:20)
cardigan? No? Like a blouse? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah.

Exactly! I'm with your husband! my god! I'm gonna borrow this from you! ⁓ are you now?

Roula (02:50)
And this part of the conversation is like, so what do I do? Do I have to call you to your wardrobe, show you the blouse and then ask you, can I borrow it? And he was like, I don't know if I want to lend it to you.

Rosie (02:57)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mmm And what happened though what happened did you get to wear it or no?

Roula (03:07)
That wasn't very convenient.

Yeah, I did wear it, but then we had this conversation when I came back home, what's the difference between borrowing, lending, when to ask, et cetera.

Rosie (03:20)
Okay, so if your husband, your son, your daughters, whoever, like someone in your family, close, that you love very much, if they went into your wardrobe and borrowed something, as you were calling it, without telling, without asking, and you then saw them, or they just announced you on borrowing this, what would you say? What would your reaction be?

Roula (03:44)
would feel so invasive to my privacy.

Rosie (03:47)
See? Yes! Yeah! Shit!

Roula (03:51)
I guess I didn't learn

at all.

Rosie (03:54)
Okay, but the important part is, do you think you will change how you approach borrowing things now that you've reflected and thought about it?

Roula (04:04)
Rosie, I should have after my conversation with my husband, but here I am wearing my son's necklace without telling him.

Rosie (04:07)
You are stealing your son's necklace.

Yeah, that would piss me off. That's mine, excuse me. ⁓ that's funny. It looks very, like good choice. It looks amazing, but I'm with your husband. You should have asked your son. Not told him, asked him.

Roula (04:28)
before I even touch it.

Rosie (04:30)
Exactly, yeah.

Roula (04:32)
And

this when, if he says yes, it means he's lending it to me.

Rosie (04:39)
And you're borrowing it because he's lending it. Yes. Yes, consent. And consent is important. Not just in the bedroom.

Roula (04:41)
And I'm borrowing it. There is consent.

Okay, consent is important in everything. And now I'm thinking, wow, I really have to take it off after we finish.

Rosie (04:56)
Yeah.

You're feeling guilty, aren't you? I can see this look on your face. You're just processing this going, shit.

Roula (05:06)
Hmm. But I'm not sure I want

to take it off now that we're recording because I really like it.

Rosie (05:10)
It looks really good. It does look really

good. I think you should follow through. Pick your sun up with it on and it's going to spark, I think, a really good conversation and a conversation about boundaries, but also consent. Cause I know that's something that's important to you in your relationships and it's, yeah. People think consent, that's to do with sex.

Roula (05:36)
Yeah, it's with other things.

Rosie (05:38)
Yeah, it's with everything.

Roula (05:41)
Do you remember when last time or at the moment where you borrowed something or lended something that never returned? No one returns it to you?

Rosie (05:53)
Ooh. Yeah, but it's they're not things I lended. Often it's, no, sometimes actually. I lent a book to a friend and I never fucking got it back. That's an example and that pisses me off. my God.

Roula (06:07)
Books when they don't return books

Rosie (06:12)
they've just never acknowledged it and I'm like you know what I don't even want to have that because they're not someone I'm close with anymore I kind of want the book back but I'm also like ⁓ fuck's sake

Roula (06:21)
Even though you can buy the book back, but you lend the book for a reason. It meant something to you. You wanted to share.

Rosie (06:25)
Yes, I gave

it with, yes, I wanted to share and it was given with the intent that it would be returned to me. Even though a timeline wasn't specified, like it still might be given back to me. But it's almost like there's this etiquette, if you borrow something, it needs to come back. Like if you borrowed my necklace for an event, I would expect you to give it back within a couple of days after the event, not.

Roula (06:51)
Yeah.

Rosie (06:54)
six months later.

Roula (06:57)
Are you a possessive person or you don't mind lending stuff?

Rosie (06:59)
I think I kinda am.

I think I am a bit possessive. I don't mind lending things, but it's very important that the person gives it back. And I have been burnt before. And you know why I'm a bit ⁓ triggered by this? Is my ex would always fucking take my clothes without asking and keep them. Like that's it, they became hers. I'm like, no, that's mine.

Roula (07:03)
⁓

Gosh, that's what I, what the hell I feel how my husband reacted. Stop taking my stuff.

Rosie (07:33)
no.

I feel like you're someone who would give it back though. Like I didn't share that to make you feel guilty. Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (07:39)
Definitely.

I'm not being pretentious,

I definitely give it back.

Rosie (07:45)
Yeah, good. Yeah, I feel like you would too. Yeah, you're just a little bit cheeky in how you pretend to borrow it. Yes, yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah.

Roula (07:48)
here.

and I will treat it also with care knowing that it's not my property

But there's no point to

tell all of this stuff to my husband because the first point is that you don't take it before you ask me.

Rosie (08:04)
you

It's about his feelings really. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. And then I guess

down the track there could be a conversation of maybe why it didn't cross your mind because you're respecting it and it's a compliment that you want to borrow it maybe that sort of thing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Whereas he possibly saw it of a breach of trust or something.

Roula (08:22)
Yeah! I saw it as a compliment. Like you have so many beautiful stuff that I so want to wear them.

Yeah, privacy that

it's mine. Yeah, like you can't put your hands on my stuff like that even though like, yeah.

Rosie (08:34)
A privacy, yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, I want to be asked permission for sure. I'm

not somebody who, like even if with food, this pisses me off too. If someone just grabs something off my plate and eats it, I'm like, fuck off. It doesn't mean I wouldn't have shared it if they asked, but don't you just take something off my plate that is mine.

Roula (08:55)
I do that too.

Rosie (08:57)
steal food? I wonder how he feels about that? ⁓

Roula (08:58)
from him.

Yeah, I don't know why things look more delicious on his plate

than on mine.

Rosie (09:08)
Did you know? Did you know? I haven't fact checked this. So this is one of those, I'm just going to say it, but I'm not sure. Apparently, do you have the saying, the grass is always greener on the other side? Okay. So apparently like there is actual evidence. Apparently, I haven't checked it. It could be bullshit. Scientifically, the grass is greener on the other side. It looks greener.

Roula (09:15)
Okay, okay.

Of course! Yeah, yeah.

So

if I look at my neighbor's grass, it looks greener than mine.

Rosie (09:37)
Yes! Yes! Looks

greener than if you went over there. Yes.

Roula (09:41)
So this is where the saying is coming from, from...

Rosie (09:44)
Yeah,

maybe it's based on fact. I don't know.

Roula (09:48)
Well, there was a kind

of wisdom back then, in the day, when they brought all these sayings.

Rosie (09:52)
I guess more agricultural.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. But it does always feel greener on the other side, doesn't it? There's a bit of envy and not jealousy. Envy, envy. Yeah. Like, I really like that. I want that. ⁓

Roula (09:59)
It's envy, I think of envy. Yeah.

Even though when you look closer it's not greener.

Rosie (10:08)
Yeah.

Roula (10:10)
You've given me now something to think about. I want to research it.

Rosie (10:13)
And green is made

up of blue and yellow. So it's not just, it's not green, it's blue and yellow.

Roula (10:21)
Blue and yellow, blue and yellow. no, that's black and yellow. Black and yellow.

Rosie (10:23)
One yellow, blue and yellow It's black and yellow Black and yellow, black and yellow,

black and yellow

⁓ my goodness.

Roula (10:32)
Okay, all

right, all right. So, Rosie, I have to make sure I come clean with my son about the necklace. ⁓ At two o'clock, I have to pick him up. I won't take it off because then it will be a lie. I'm gonna go and pick him up while wearing it. I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna own it.

Rosie (10:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, you're gonna own it. Okay, cool. Quick follow-up question.

We have to do this quickly, because we're trying not to be rambly long episodes. Do you think you will apologize to your son? Because we've had a lot of talks about apologizing and how, you know, we overdo it and they're not sincere. And you've said in the past, you don't really say, I'm sorry. You say what you're going to do in the future instead.

Roula (11:14)
⁓ Well I'm gonna tell him Liam

I did something today that I don't think it was right and that is I wore your necklace without asking your permission for it and I want to tell you that I should have not done it and I will see what he was gonna respond

Rosie (11:36)
It comes across as really sincere and you are... It's accountability, isn't it? Look, I did this and I don't think it's right. And it's interesting because I remember when you said in the episode, no, don't say I'm sorry. I said, well, how rude. Like, I feel like there's times when you should. But then you give me examples like that and I go, ⁓ that's so good. Like that to me is so much more meaningful than I'm sorry. Like, what are you sorry for?

You're just saying I'm sorry. You've actually thought about it in your response. So I like that. And I actually really look forward to hearing Liam's response because he is very emotionally intelligent and very, very kind, intelligent boy. So I look forward to hearing about this. Yeah. Yes.

Roula (12:05)
Yeah.

I'm going to tell him we recorded this episode triggered by the necklace and now we'll see if he agrees

that I film our interaction.

Rosie (12:32)
yeah, you need consent for

this being published. So if you're hearing it, Liam gave consent and if not, Rula and I had a good conversation. In private. Bye everybody, let us know your thoughts on Rula's behaviour. Would it bother you?

Roula (12:38)
Yes. All right. Great. OK. Bye. Exactly. no, I didn't think this was the question.

All right. All right. Let me know what you think about of my behavior. No problem.

Rosie (12:58)
and your thoughts on borrowing

versus lending. And say it with care, please. We're not here to attack each other. I just think it's, we're here to learn. I really enjoyed this conversation. See ya. Bye.