191: Is Honesty Without Compassion Cruelty or Kindness? and Boundaries & Kindness

Roula (00:01)
Before we start this episode, Rosie.

Rosie (00:04)
Yes.

Roula (00:06)
I have seen your post about a packet of crackers that were all broken. This drives me crazy. We love cream crackers. And it's like when I get them from the supermarket, they're like a puzzle. I have to put the pieces together so we can have two. Why don't they handle them with care? Honestly, why crackers have to come in my hands like a bag of chips?

Rosie (00:14)
Yes.

Is it a common occurrence for you that your crackers are broken? Like does it happen a lot? That brand, they need to do better.

Roula (00:39)
This brand, yes. Yeah.

in the supermarket on the shelves this is where it went wrong. Yeah.

Rosie (00:45)
You reckon that's where it happens.

But if the packaging was better, it would compensate for the shelf stackers who maybe aren't being careful.

What's your bloody question?

Roula (00:56)
been very

We've been honest about these questions about these crackers. Have we also been cruel? Calling out these crackers. So my questions to you question to you, Rosie.

Rosie (01:14)
Yeah

Yeah, yes.

Roula (01:24)
Is honesty without compassion cruelty or kindness?

Rosie (01:32)
is honesty without compassion, cruelty or kindness.

Yeah, see, someone could be honest, but really hurtful.

Should we care that we're being hurtful?

I think we should. Not... ⁓ this is... Yeah, I think we should do it with kindness. I think we should. What? Okay.

Roula (02:02)
another question based on what you said. So

if we are honest and okay that we are cruel so what's our purpose from being honest? Is our purpose to hurt or is our purpose to help, to support? What's our purpose in being brutally honest?

Rosie (02:21)
What is our purpose? I think there's a dual purpose. Being honest.

is important to me, like telling my truth or being honest is important because it helps me set boundaries. I say, Roula, I can't record today. Can we do Friday or Saturday? That's me being honest. And it's important because I am acknowledging I can't do it today. And I think it's kind because I'm being honest with you. I'm not saying, ⁓

How are you, Roula You know, how was your day? And be really roundabout and trying to be kind. Are you up for recording? No, I just said, can't record today. Like both of us have done this, haven't we? Sometimes we're just not up for recording. And we tell each other honestly. Okay, you always have better examples than me. Come on, come on. So rude. Fuck ya. Fuck ya. No. Whatever.

Roula (03:14)
a better example for you that is that is that yes yes yes because you're rambling about something that is different for the topic your side lining okay

I'll give you an example so you're wearing this blue shirt and I'm being honest telling you

Rosie (03:29)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

god, I'm nervous.

Roula (03:36)
this color! It doesn't suit your face very much.

So I'm being honest with you, this color looks awful on you. maybe it's even better. I'm going to tell you this color is awful. So I'm being honest. This is what I think when I'm also being fucking cruel.

Rosie (03:53)
Okay. Okay. So what would be the, what's,

what's the purpose of you telling me that? Yeah.

Roula (04:00)
I don't want you to wear this shirt anymore. doesn't, you don't look good in it. by the way, she looks amazing. ⁓ I'm just giving this as an example.

Rosie (04:05)
Is this like... I was about to ask, do

you actually think it doesn't look good on me? You were saying that so convincingly, I was like, oh really? I thought it...

Okay, so you were saying it because you care about how I look or just because that was on your mind?

Which one?

Roula (04:28)
that's even a good question because when people are cruel and in their honesty I don't know if they care if you're looking good or they just want to tell you how bad you're looking

Rosie (04:39)
Yeah, but you, if you were to

tell me this, like if I was wearing this color and it didn't look good on me and you saw me and went, Rosie, I don't like this color on you. It doesn't look good. I feel like you're, you're brave enough and honest enough to tell me these things. Why would you say something like that?

Roula (04:59)
Yeah. ⁓ I think I should not say something like that.

Rosie (05:06)
⁓

Roula (05:07)
If you're wearing a shirt and you're comfortable in it, why do I have to comment on it? It's, I'm not going to wear the shirt. You're wearing it. Is it, for example, let's take a close example, my daughter, for example, if she's wearing something that's really not looking good on her. I also don't tell her it doesn't look good because how this will make her feel.

Rosie (05:11)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

What? Okay, no, he's the next bit.

Okay, but is that kindness or cruelty?

Roula (05:41)
yeah I don't think I'm not being I'm not asked if I'm asked I can be honest but if I'm not asked if I say it without being asked if she comes to me and tells me what do you think of this shirt I would be honest and give my opinion but if I throw my opinion on her and you know if something happened a few days ago I had a call with my sisters we had the mind you

Rosie (05:42)
Because you're not being honest.

Okay, okay, so if someone asks,

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (06:09)
My sisters don't see me every day because they live in a different country. And then we went on the call and the first thing that one of my sisters said to me, you gained weight, didn't you? When you were here, you were you get weighed. And the other one said to me, no, maybe because you were wearing something that made you look fat.

Rosie (06:13)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (06:31)
And I was sort of, are you body shaming me first? But I didn't go into the conversation because they're not on the level to understand what I mean with body shaming. And then I was, is this being honest with me or are they being cruel?

Rosie (06:35)
Yeah, wow.

Not on the level. Yeah, okay. shit. I

mean, I don't know if you have put on weight. What's it to me, right? But if, if for example, you had put on weight.

Like is that some, like do you think that was kind of, it's not. Yeah, if I was concerned about your health, perhaps maybe if from weight gain, I think that would be a very hard conversation to have, but you're a person I care about. And if I was really worried about you from place of concern, empathy, compassion, I probably would pull.

Roula (07:02)
How relevant is it for you? For a person?

Rosie (07:29)
bring it up. I wouldn't just get on a call with you and go, you've put on weight. ⁓ But no!

Roula (07:34)
Yes, then you

take consideration and you probably even thoughtfully consider how you're going to tackle the conversation because you're coming from a point of care. But when you get this remark of people getting feeling that they are being honest and actually they're just being cruel, it makes us wonder why.

Rosie (07:44)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, just honesty by itself does not make you a good person. think there's...

I could be honest with someone on the streets saying...

You're really unattractive.

I think honesty without compassion perhaps is cruelty. But the asterisk next to that is sometimes we don't say things perhaps that we should say because we're too worried about how it's going to make the other person feel.

Roula (08:34)
true.

Rosie (08:35)
So you can take it too far in the other direction. And I think that happens when you're being honest about yourself actually. I think that's often when it happens.

Roula (08:38)
But again...

I'll take you back about just what you said. Sometimes we should say something and we don't. It's better because we just said when we consider what we're going to say and bring it properly, we never know if we're bringing it properly because, you know, it's trial and error. But if we come from a place of care or worry or support and we bring up something, then yes, it is honesty with kindness.

Rosie (08:50)
Yeah.

Roula (09:14)
and we should be prepared for whatever reaction will come to us.

So if you've been honest with me from a place of care and I'm not ready to hear it, then yeah, you should also consider that probably I'm not ready to hear it. But if you're honest to me, because in your eye, in your head, you think you're honest by being cruel to me.

Rosie (09:27)
Right, yeah.

Mm.

Roula (09:40)
most of the time people are not ready for the reaction because like ⁓ but i'm just being honest yeah don't be

Rosie (09:47)
how often

do you hear that? Yeah. Fuck. I was more thinking it's often with people maybe you're not so close with. It could be someone you're close with. I'm thinking of an example. I don't want to go into the nitty gritty. You're familiar with it, ⁓ Roula, but for our listeners, I had a client last year. I did a really big job for her. Biggest job I've ever done, right? And it was tens of thousands worth of work.

And the deal was that she could do it in payments and then there'd be a lump sum payment of $18,000 at the end. This person still owes me $12,500. Do I be honest and tell her she's a piece of shit or do I leave it?

Roula (10:36)
exactly. This is a good example because if you're being honest without knowing what's, ⁓ shit.

Rosie (10:45)
What?

Roula (10:46)
I need to leave. I have a physiotherapy appointment, Rosie, and I need to fly now to be continued.

Rosie (10:50)
shit! To be continued listeners, to