224: Australia Bans Social Media for Kids Under 16: Is This Protection or Control?

Roula (00:01)
Okay, so you're telling me about the social, I throw the tea everywhere on my table, but it's okay. No, no, okay.

Rosie (00:06)
Okay, quick, clean up. Clean up. No? Okay.

Yeah, you need...

Roula (00:22)
Okay, social media ban in Australia, tell me more.

Rosie (00:22)
You

Yeah,

right. So let's just bring listeners up to speed in case they're not across it. So Australia is doing a world first. They've introduced legislation that came into effect yesterday, 10th of December, banning social media for children under 16. And it is so controversial. Everybody has a different opinion and everybody is angry at the person with the opposing view, but

The big thing for me, because I'm not sure if it is the right call, is how is this going to be enforced? And the government has said, it's not our responsibility, it's the responsibility of the social media companies to take reasonable steps to stop under 16s joining. Okay. Now this is where I think it can get a little bit scary, is they are using different technologies to do this. Because obviously if they just relied on the data birth children put in,

A lot of them would lie if they want to maintain access. So that's not a very good way. Some sites, think it's Meta that's doing it and a few others, maybe Roblox, they are using AI to use facial recognition. So the kid has to take a photo of their face and the AI will estimate their age. And there are kids on social media under 16 going, ha ha, look, I'm still on because a lot of kids look...

older than they are. And then I saw a post on Facebook from a parent who found it quite hilarious that their child took a photo of their pug, their dog, and it fooled the AI and they are now have access to social media. So it's just, it's a mess. And you know what? There is no consequence for breaking this law. For parents, there's no consequence. For the children, there's no consequence. For the companies,

Roula (02:06)
Thank

Rosie (02:15)
I don't know. I'm actually not sure if they get fined or what, because it's all very wishy-washy. They just have to take reasonable steps. Whatever the hell that means.

Roula (02:27)
this all sounds really ridiculous like it's all talking but in action it's not actionable

Rosie (02:30)
Yeah

How do you enact that? Yeah. It's an interesting one. You know, like there's laws in different countries, the legal age to drink in Australia, it's 18. And I think that's easier to enforce. Of course there's people with fake IDs and everything, but it's easier to enforce because...

I was going to say, because you're buying it in person, I guess you can order it online now. You can do it online. I don't know. But what, what a lot of people are worried about is that this could be the beginning of digital ID where the government, you know, your, your official ID is digital and you have to share it with all these companies. So there's, there's, there's a lot of fear. Yeah. Privacy, right. The privacy. So it's just, it's crazy. And I don't know where I stand on it.

Roula (02:59)
No, lots buy in online.

Privacy is less.

I heard on an interview on TV with the Australian youth, one answer stuck in my head so strong. These two teenagers said that they find it extremely bad that they're banning them, the teenagers, from social media, but they're allowing all the bad things happening on social media. So all the bad guys, all the predators, et cetera, they all are on social media, but they're trying to...

Rosie (03:46)
Right.

Roula (03:52)
ban the kids from it. And they feel that the focus is on the wrong population.

Rosie (03:58)
Yeah, because wouldn't it be easier to enforce stringent regulations on the companies as to what they can have on social media? I even heard someone recommend, don't allow them to use algorithms anymore. And I thought, well, there's an interesting thought. I don't know what the answer is. How do you enforce this stuff?

Roula (04:13)
This is what

I shared with you an episode from the podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty about social media and algorithm. I feel everyone should listen to this from teenagers to parents. He gave an incredible solo episode on the algorithm and how it would be smarter to work with social media, but also what's the best way to...

Rosie (04:22)
Yeah, I haven't read yet.

Roula (04:41)
stop obsessing and stop scrolling. It blew my mind. Nothing that we don't know, but the way he puts it in these words on the podcast, clarify, like gave me clarity so much about algorithm and why this also stuck with me because it gave me even more stronger input and opinion for myself, how I don't care about putting the podcast anymore on social media like I used to.

Rosie (05:11)
Mmm. This has been a big journey for you, hasn't it? This social media thing, you know, not only with, of course, Liam and navigating that, but with our podcast and kind of this struggle of we should be doing this, it's going to help us grow. then, but you're not someone who, who personally likes spending a lot of time on social media, but then like it's been a thing.

Roula (05:14)
Yes.

Yes, yes, it really is amazing if the change will happen because what he what now we're like deviating a little bit from the ban of the social media. But if the most important thing he talked about, in my opinion, is that remember, we have the episode about validation, that how validation can be toxic and wrong. Because when you when you watch for a certain time on a clip short.

And then the algorithm is feeding you more of the same opinion of the same content. And then you feel like you're so validated to the point of becoming too extreme with your thoughts or whatever.

Rosie (06:04)
Yeah.

Yeah,

it's like this confirmation bias. Yeah, that's an interesting point. Yeah.

Roula (06:13)
Yes, what

he's saying in there, the best thing is that to just drop all this and only post... I'm having... I forgot the word... Chronological content.

Rosie (06:28)
I swear this is how it used to be. Do you remember?

Roula (06:30)
Yeah,

I don't remember. I haven't been on social media this much, this long. I mean, I am on Facebook, but I haven't been on it. Chronological.

Rosie (06:38)
Well, I remember when I joined

Facebook, yeah, it was a chronological timeline and you would see what your friends were posting. That's what I remember.

Roula (06:44)
There is no money

in this module. That's why.

Rosie (06:51)
Yeah, we are the product. Think about that. We are the product.

Roula (06:53)
We are the product. Yes,

yes, we are the product. Our kids are the product. And you know what? We're all so fucking stupid because we go along with this product. Even even watching my clips or even going on your social media, I'm like, why am I doing this?

because the more I watch your social media, I will have content like yours again. But I'm not interested in van lifers. I'm only interested in you.

Rosie (07:23)
Yeah, right. Right. It's an interesting point. So I don't know if this is going to be an era of maybe some new platforms coming out that are more mindful and safer for not only our children and teenagers, but just society as a whole. ⁓

Roula (07:25)
see.

Don't we have

a Gen Z person who's as smart as Zuckenberg and these people? Like how can this be?

Rosie (07:48)
⁓ yeah, I reckon our

kids could come up with something really cool, I think. Maybe this is an opportunity. You know, I was just thinking as we were talking, how would I feel if all of a sudden I lost access to social media?

I Facebook to me is, I do mindlessly scroll on there a lot. So I think losing access to that would overall be positive. TikTok, I have built such a caring and wonderful community there. I would really miss that. I'd really miss that. So I don't tend to consume much content there. I go live and post content and engage with my audience.

miss that. It's a way for me to connect with people. So yeah, can't, it's hard.

Roula (08:37)
That's the thing, it's

not bad for to connect. just like for you and you might not have an answer and I don't even have an answer. What is the alternative to fill our time with connection and valuable contacts that is not social media?

Rosie (08:41)
Right.

Yeah, it's probably in-person things. Phone calls, emails, letters. This is all things I used to do.

Roula (09:04)
Letters, I love letters. You spend time writing, posting. We don't do this.

Rosie (09:06)
I used to... Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful.

I haven't written anybody a letter in a long time. When I was a teenager, I moved from Australia to England and I stayed in touch with my friends by email, but actually mostly by letters and phone calls. And it was so cool.

Roula (09:27)
Because if we reduce the use of WhatsApp and if we reduce our use of social media, let's say we stop, then we will miss people. We think, for example, WhatsApp connected with everybody every day. We feel like, we're connected, we're in touch, et cetera. But actually, I don't get to miss them. I don't get to know what they're doing because it's so close the reach.

Rosie (09:28)
Yeah.

So would

you be okay if the government all of a sudden said, we're shutting down WhatsApp, we're shutting everything down, it's gone, everything.

Roula (09:59)
Well, this is what my feeling is. As long as it's not coming from us, we were resisted and hated. So if it's coming from the government, we will see as it's a control of our freedom. But if it comes from us deciding to quit social media, to quit WhatsApp, and search for the older way of connection, then we are making this decision.

Rosie (10:10)
Mm.

Roula (10:26)
different.

Rosie (10:27)
It is different. So would you make that decision? Would you delete WhatsApp? I don't want to. You would.

Roula (10:31)
I would. I would.

I would.

Rosie (10:35)
Where would you draw the line? Would you delete your email?

Roula (10:37)
I

feel like it's like me quitting smoking. I have to get myself into that point where enough is enough and I quit what's up.

Rosie (10:47)
So do you think WhatsApp's toxic?

Roula (10:50)
I don't need to have these WhatsApp all the time. I don't need to be in contact with people all the time because I'm not missing them. I'm not having a valuable conversation. It's for example, we have a WhatsApp group with my cousins, with a group with my sisters, one with my family, my husband's family. We have so many groups and every day it's like, good morning, good morning. And I'm like,

It's adding no value to my day saying good morning. You know what adds value to my day? To ask me a personal fucking question.

Rosie (11:19)
Mm.

So maybe that's not WhatsApp's problem, that's to do with how people are using it. I don't message you every day going, morning, Roula Yeah.

Roula (11:28)
Yes, I know it's not

WhatsApp problem, but as long as we change our behavior and reduce the use of good morning, good morning and go deeper into a conversation or a call, we will keep scrolling shorts. We will keep sending good morning. How are you without any intentional? mean, yes, it's from a place of love and care. But it's good to miss each other and have tons of things to talk about.

Rosie (11:39)
Yeah.

I'm in two minds about that. Yeah. I get your point. I totally do. But I also, I do like how easy it is to reach out to people. I do like that.

Roula (12:13)
But you can still reach out to them by sending them a text or calling them. We're lazy. We don't want to talk on the phone anymore.

Rosie (12:13)
I don't know.

So.

Yeah, sometimes I do. It's a bit exhausting sometimes. Just like you not answering phone calls. We both do it.

Roula (12:33)
Yeah, yeah, but if I'm not in contact with you every day, et cetera, I will answer because then it is a valuable moment. It's not like an extra contact, but I'm overwhelmed from WhatsApp messages on Facebook, whatever. And then I have to take the call. Goodness, I don't want that. But let me tell you this. On Monday, I'm going to meet my friend in Paris and she lives in France. I haven't seen her for 10 years.

Rosie (12:43)
Hmm

Wow.

Yeah.

Roula (13:01)
We're almost never in contact on WhatsApp. No social media. She's not on social media. We are now in contact to have our logistic organized, when are we going to meet, et cetera. And when I see her on Monday, we will be together for three days. And I think it's going to be like an explosion of deep conversation, getting to know her again, she getting to know me again, because we're

Rosie (13:09)
Mmm.

Sure.

Roula (13:31)
we missed each other it's going to be so valuable i love it it's a relationship totally outside of social media disconnected but yet we still value our friendship and we're going to meet

Rosie (13:36)
Hmm.

Yeah, there is something special there for sure. Yeah. I don't think we should have to miss people though. I don't think we should have to, but it's, it's funny how being forced to miss somebody makes us value them more. Isn't that sad?

Roula (14:01)
But maybe there's a purpose for missing people, is to value them.

to feel who are the important people in your life, who you want to keep in your life. I don't know. I think that this this. We're not resolving this topic, but it's yeah, it's it's something to think about. Do we really need to be in contact daily with so many people all the time? I don't understand why.

Rosie (14:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's all, as with everything, there's a balance, isn't there?

But listeners, let us know. I want you to drop a comment on YouTube or Spotify. What is your thought about Australia's social media ban? Do you think the government has crossed a line here? Do you think the responsibility should be with parents or was it the right thing for the government to step in? I want to hear people's thoughts because there's, don't think there's one answer and it's really interesting to hear different points of view.

let us know.

Roula (15:00)
Bye!

Rosie (15:01)
Bye!