238: Valentine’s Day - Commercialised Bullshit or Meaningful Tradition?

Roula (00:00)
I have a new color red lipstick.

Rosie (00:03)
you do? How did I not notice that?

Roula (00:07)
they're all red

Rosie (00:09)
They're

over-

You

Roula (00:13)
I'm

going to speak closer to the camera.

Rosie (00:28)
that looks beautiful. Look at that red lip. What's the name of the shade of this lipstick ruler?

Roula (00:34)
It's Mary Kay.

Rosie (00:37)
Mary Kay. Is that the brand or the name of the? ⁓ okay.

Roula (00:38)
And they only have one red.

Something with Hollywood.

Rosie (00:47)
Okay, well that looks good. And you know what? Red is actually relevant because on the day of recording it is Valentine's Day and red is associated with Valentine's Day. I want to know Roula because we did a post, I'm sure we did a post on social media about Valentine's Day, but we have never done an episode. Is Valentine's Day commercialized bullshit?

Roula (00:51)
Thank you.

Rosie (01:17)
or is it actually meaningful?

Roula (01:21)
Everything that comes from the USA is commercialized bullshit.

Rosie (01:27)
mic drop.

Roula (01:28)
No, no, no. Deleted, deleted. I'm not sure if it comes from the USA. Wow. OK, what what triggered me to say this is because in Europe things were not commercialized until Halloween became commercialized. Christmas became commercialized even though Christmas is started in Germany, but got commercialized by the Pepsi Coca-Cola. ⁓ So so, yes.

Rosie (01:32)
Yeah, I got no idea where it comes from. In my head I was like...

Yes.

Ryan Coca-Cola kinda made it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roula (01:57)
It's a cultural thing. Here things started getting commercialized when they started becoming American, Americanized. Let me say it this way.

Rosie (02:05)
Yeah.

Roula (02:06)
I mean, probably it's the least festive day that people get trapped in.

Rosie (02:16)
I'm not following Say more. ⁓

Roula (02:17)
In a meaning, I don't see

people running by in red flowers and love envelopes and booking dinners and it doesn't happen this way,

Rosie (02:27)
So is it important to you?

Roula (02:31)
Well, put slingers, what you call it, when you hang for birthdays, you hang flags for birthdays.

Rosie (02:35)
Streamers?

Oh, like a...

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah.

Roula (02:43)
But I hanged red hearts from paper and I'm going to bake ⁓ a Valentine cake. And when I was in Belgium Antwerp, I brought Valentine's chocolates with angels, ⁓ now need angels, cupids and hearts. And what I do, I celebrated with my children and my husband. It's a day where we enjoy, we celebrate love and our love to each other.

Rosie (02:46)
Aww.

fact that it's a family thing. I love that. I was about to give you shit because you're doing things for Valentine's Day, but actually that sounds really lovely. I love it.

Roula (03:21)
No. And I make sure

I make sure not to spend more than maybe 10 euros.

on whatever I want to do. Was it the stuff for the cake or the flags that I'm hanging? I make sure I keep it as low budget as possible because I want to give it a symbol of love, but I don't want to spend money on it.

Rosie (03:51)
Mm-hmm. It's never really meant a huge amount to me, nor in my friendship group either, but on social media, it's like, especially, I don't even know what counts as middle-aged anymore. was about to say, especially for middle-aged women, you know, like mid-30s to mid to late 40s. Like if you're single, it's like really sad.

and they talk about having these. So for people who are single, what do they call it? Gallentine's Day, where you hang out with the gals, you know? I just, I don't know. I like your version of Valentine's Day.

Roula (04:35)
don't think Valentine is the problem. I think not this obsession of being with someone is the problem.

Rosie (04:38)
Mm.

Yeah, it is an obsession.

Roula (04:48)
because I think you only appreciate being single when you haven't been single for a long time.

We always want what the other one have. don't

we need to separate these two because first we should not celebrate love on Valentine's Day. Why I do it on Valentine's Day is because I'm like going with the flow with the day with the remembering this day because of the ads and all the flowers in the shops.

Rosie (05:18)
Hmm.

Roula (05:23)
This is why I do it on the 14th of February. Could I do it on any different day? Of course. But I will not find heart flags and I will not find Cupid chocolate.

Rosie (05:27)
Yeah.

sure. ⁓

true. ⁓

So did you come up with this tradition or was it something you were raised with?

Roula (05:41)
Oh no, I came up with it. Valentine, I probably last time celebrated it when I was 15. And no one ever talked about it. You have on TV when I was still living in Lebanon, parties, ads and dinner discounts so much. It's just all fucking marketing. It means nothing. Nothing.

Rosie (05:43)
you can.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Unless you

make it mean something, I suppose. If you're just buying a box of chocolates because it's Valentine's Day and you don't want to hurt the feelings of your partner. And by the way, actually, it's always the men who are expected to give the women something, not the other way around.

Roula (06:26)
Do you think?

Rosie (06:28)
I do.

Roula (06:32)
Not in my relationship, but what you're saying can be true because women. OK, I do I do have a reasonable ⁓ reasoning for this, a reasonable what I can say. Because men are not emotional human beings, they're rational, they factual, they keep their emotions until you help them dig into it. So on this day, women

Rosie (06:45)
Okay.

Roula (07:03)
needs some kind of emotional sign. And this emotional sign could be translated in red flowers, chocolate, et cetera. I don't think that we want men to do it because it's on men to do that. I think that women are longing for an emotional expression and hoping on that day this emotional expression will come. I'm not generalizing, not all women.

Rosie (07:29)
Let's totally generalise

it. You knew! ⁓

Roula (07:30)
No, no, that's why I'm saying before you hit me on my head. ⁓ my God, when

she's in this mood, I can't say anything right. One day she's with me and one day she's the enemy.

Rosie (07:43)
⁓

Roula (07:46)
I don't want to generalize, not all women. So this is one thing why I think it's like this. The other reason why women accept men to do it is because some women just can't. If they take initiative and do it in their mind, he's not looking after me. I'm the one who did it first. ⁓ I'm the one who has to buy the chocolate. I'm the one who I got them flowers. He never think of it first.

Rosie (07:47)
Yes.

Roula (08:14)
Because women in a way want men to read their mind. And when they don't, because God forbid they can't, it's a disaster.

Rosie (08:18)
God, yeah.

It is, yeah. And I think the whole marketing of Valentine's Day plays into it. It's not, I don't think I've ever seen marketing where it's women, you know, we're talking about heterosexual relationships here, but we, or in the movies when there's Valentine's Day, it's not usually the woman who's surprising the man or giving the roses or whatever it is. Why the hell not?

Roula (08:30)
Yes!

Aha! Movies are another marketing. Movies show us a way of life that is not realistic anymore.

Rosie (08:52)
is

So true and brands pay to have the products placed in there. So yes, you're right.

Roula (09:04)
Let's take for example the movie Pretty Woman.

Rosie (09:07)
Yes, okay, yeah.

Roula (09:08)
I want the man version of pretty woman. I want pretty man. It's time to change that.

Rosie (09:11)
⁓ yes! Yes! It is Time Roula

⁓ that would be so good!

Roula (09:21)
The question here, which, what audience this movie will attract if it's not only gay men or and women probably most surely. Will this attract the heterosexual men?

Rosie (09:30)
Mmm.

Men maybe not, I think women will love it.

Roula (09:40)
But we don't want to do it only for women. We want to do this to like a wake up call also for men.

Rosie (09:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Roula (09:49)
Yeah, the pretty man, the manly version, and then why there's nothing wrong about it. I would love to treat my husband like this and have a like Ferrari and take him out on places and why not? Who said his man should only do this?

Rosie (10:06)
There's male sex workers too,

you know. So yes, filmmakers do it.

Roula (10:11)
But this also lie

in something deeper.

financial power is in the hands of the man and the sexual power is in the hands of woman. Why pretty woman is a stereotype is that he's the rich, he has the money, he has the contact, he can pay her, he can give her the nice clothes, et cetera. And this didn't disappear. It's still there.

Rosie (10:20)
Mmm. Wow.

Mm-mm. ⁓

So true,

yeah.

Roula (10:37)
If a woman is earning more, I don't think she wants to spend it on a pretty man.

But men with money want to spend it on a pretty woman.

Rosie (10:45)
Mmm.

⁓ yeah, this is, it's like a status thing or something, I don't know.

Roula (10:55)
I want you to build on what I said, come on. Yeah.

Rosie (10:57)
You want me to build on it? can't. You're

just making me fall deep into thought. Perhaps too for women because we've been raised.

and exposed to men having the power and being the breadwinner and bringing in the income for the family, that when you become a woman who is independent and bringing in all the money, it's almost like, stuff you. Like, I made it on my own. I'm a woman and I did this. So maybe there's a bit of that at play. But also,

Roula (11:31)
Also,

there's a contradiction to this. It's not when the woman is bringing the money and the independence and doing all the nice car, the house, et cetera, she doesn't want to make him feel uncomfortable.

Rosie (11:46)
⁓ shit, that's exactly it. Yeah. I think you've actually touched on it there. Men find it emasculating, don't they? And we're generalizing. We're speaking in generalizations. Yes.

Roula (11:56)
Yes, not all men were not. Yes.

Not all men are like this. Unfortunately. The movies represent men like this. Social media is representing a lot of men like this, because when I see, for example, on social media, men who are tonic, this is the opposite for toxic tonic man who bring positivity.

who speak up, who are trying to help their fellow men to wake up to this weird, wrong way of thinking and get into stepping up emotionally and everything with their wives, with their families, girlfriends. I only see comments from women. I wonder which men are even listening to them.

hundreds of comments and trust me I scroll down the comments because every time I see such a post I want to read the comment from a man

Rosie (12:52)
You would. ⁓

Maybe they are, they're reading it, but they're not commenting because it's still a new space, isn't it? It's a new space, they might not feel safe.

Roula (13:04)
⁓ probably.

Yeah.

Rosie (13:10)
I don't know. We're probably going to have men listening going, my God, you guys, you're full of shit. But I don't think we are.

Roula (13:18)
But the men who are

listening and thinking we are full of shit are not our audience. So get out of here.

Rosie (13:24)
for this conversation. No, don't get out of here, stay.

Roula (13:28)
If you think we're full out of shit because this conversation you can't something you cannot handle. No, my podcast is not for them.

Rosie (13:34)
No, I think

that's true. I more-so meant men who think that there's not men out there who, who are threatened by women who earn more. Those sort of men who are listening to this might say, guys, you're full of shit on this topic. I don't, I don't think that way. did you call them? The tonic? No. Yeah.

Roula (13:53)
My husband is not threatened. His brother doesn't

feel threatened. I can name so many men that I know closely, friends, whatever. My brother is not threatened.

Rosie (14:02)
Mm.

Roula (14:08)
There are plenty of men who are not threatards. Only they don't talk about this topic.

Rosie (14:09)
plenty of men, yeah.

Hmm.

Roula (14:18)
And we need men to speak up and talk more. Anyway, this Valentine episode turn into something else. Yeah.

Rosie (14:21)
Yes, rather than us speaking on your behalf. Yes, thank you. So we're both

saying Valentine's Day is commercialized bullshit. However, you can sell it. You can make it mean what you want it to. Like Roula, she makes it a family occasion and I love

Roula (14:36)
Wow, there's nothing I can add to this. I hope you liked our episode. Maybe you've felt also that there is some kind of message or some kind of pain points in it. It cannot be. It's life. We are different people and we just have to keep talking about this.

Rosie (14:54)
Yes, yes, that's right. All right. Buy us a coffee. See in the next one.

Roula (15:00)
Thank you for listening. Bye.