241: Women Fixing Cars? Breaking Gender Roles & Why Diversity in Jobs Matters

Rosie (00:00)
Roula

Roula (00:02)
You said Roula and my cat started meowing outside of the window. Yeah.

Rosie (00:06)
Let him in, he wants to give you a cuddle.

Roula (00:18)
I'm give it a little bit twist this intro.

Rosie (00:22)
Okay, you're going to do it. Yeah.

Roula (00:24)
So dear listeners, we sat down today to record, but I was crying and very sad because tomorrow we have to put our daughter's cat to sleep and this is really sad for us. We thought we're not going to record. And then Rosie shared that she also had hard news this week about a new problem in her van, which she's been fixing herself.

And suddenly we come up, we started asking each other questions and we think this is a good episode to record because the topic is important. And Rosie, the topic today that I want us to talk about is first my admiration for you fixing your van. Every time I see you fixing your van on TikTok, I'm like, I'm so, how does she discover this stuff?

Rosie (01:02)
Yes.

Thank you.

Roula (01:22)
How does she know what to do? And then you told me that there aren't a of women who do this.

Rosie (01:23)
You

Mmm.

Roula (01:33)
And this is what I want us to talk about. You know, fixing cars and women.

Rosie (01:37)
Yes, this will be good. Yeah,

it's a good distraction, I think, for you and also for me.

And listeners, as we were talking, Roula said to me, this is an episode, Rosie, hit play, hit record, let's go. Just like that. We're in the zone. Because I was saying, I think I might have found the issue, not 100%. And then we got on to talking about how

no, Ruler, what did you say to me? You said, Rosie, this is your calling. This is your next career.

Roula (02:22)
Yes, wherever you stop in each city, you can work helping fix electric vans.

Rosie (02:29)
Yeah, well, that'd be cool. ⁓ And that's when I said, well, I've never met a female mechanic. They exist, but I have never met one. They're all men. And usually when I talk to mechanics, they're very dismissive because I'm a woman. And over the past 12 plus months, I have done a lot of mechanical work on the van. I had no experience, but I've been learning. And when I tell these mechanics this, they brush it off as if, she couldn't have done that.

So I quite like this concept of more female mechanics. And now I'm excited. Maybe I could be one.

Roula (03:09)
It's so exciting. I think there are valid reasons why there are no female mechanics. And this doesn't mean ⁓ females cannot become mechanics. I hear you when you say you feel you are dismissed. I can relate to this when, for example, I drive a big car and I can park it between two cars in a heartbeat.

Rosie (03:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Roula (03:40)
no matter how small the street is. I'm a kick-ass car parking driver. And every time, yes, parallel park, that's what you say. Whenever I'm parking the cars and there are guys or men standing, I see the panic on their face thinking or saying or giving me instruction or telling me it won't fit, et cetera. And I think it's because I'm a woman.

Rosie (03:42)
Uh-huh.

You need to teach me how to parallel park.

Mmm!

Roula (04:09)
in their mind, just like fixing cars, in their mind, they know how to do this because it's like they're born with this talent.

Rosie (04:20)
Women couldn't possibly know how to do that. Women need saving Roula We can't do things for ourselves.

Roula (04:29)
yeah they have to save us all the time. ⁓ look there is a truth that let's go back women don't do don't go under the car and fix it first they never had the chance

Schools mostly are for boys because boys like to work with their hands. They can do technical stuff. They can focus on this technical thing and resolve it. We women are good in other things. in skill wise, apparently skill wise, we are taught that men can do car fixing and women can stand and cook in the kitchen.

Rosie (04:59)
Apparently.

Yes, yes.

Roula (05:10)
And this

is how the system is built. We come back to the system. It's not capacity. I mean, look at you. I could call you now and tell you, what do I do? My car is not driving. And then you will start asking me the right questions.

Rosie (05:14)
Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe. Yeah.

Roula (05:29)
And if I say to people,

I'm talking to Rosie and she's helping me and these people, I mean men. We're not bitching on men now. We're just stating facts. Facts. These are facts. Yes, I'm sure if I say I'm calling I'm calling Rosie, I'm going to Rosie, my friend, to ask a second opinion. And probably the garage guy will tell me, no, you have to call that guy to give you a second opinion.

Rosie (05:37)
Well, yes, yes. Thanks. Generalizations.

Yes. And I have had exactly that happening when I was at the caravan park last year, fixing the van myself. The first man I told said, no, let me call my mechanic. He'll help. He's really good. He's a diesel mechanic. And I said, no, I've got a mechanic helping me. No, no, he wouldn't listen to me. He called up his friend on the phone, told him the symptoms and his so-called amazing mechanic. You might not know these words, but I'll tell you why it's ridiculous in a second. He said, oh, it's the catalytic converter.

And I said, diesel engines do not have a catalytic converter. So that is not the issue. And I'm thinking, you fucking dumbass. I mean, I wouldn't have known that diesels didn't have a catalytic converter, but I had learned that. And so there's a man trying to tell me what to do because I'm a woman and don't know anything. And then another person came to the caravan park and insisted.

I go to a mechanic he uses all the time and I said, no, no, no, you know, like I'm, working through it. said, no, no, let me take it. It's really good. And so I didn't know what else to say. So I'll let him drive me to this mechanic and the mechanic said, no, we don't work on Fords. We don't like that. Just too difficult.

Roula (07:06)
They don't work on it because they're too difficult but you are working on it and you didn't get any fucking respect for that.

Rosie (07:09)
Mmm! Mmm!

Right?

Fuck yes. Yeah. ⁓

Roula (07:16)
Okay, I don't want to bitch on men on this episode. What I want to say, Rosie, is that women rely on men with these tasks too.

Rosie (07:25)
Yeah.

Let's teach our daughters how to change a tire, how to check the oil. And if they want to do more and learn mechanical things, then encourage that.

Roula (07:38)
What if their talent is there and they never get the chance to discover it?

Rosie (07:43)
Exactly. I think there's probably so many girls and women out there who, yeah, they just never knew it was an option. We've mentioned this in a few episodes recently. We just don't know it's an option.

Roula (07:56)
Now that we're looking for schools, middle schools for my son, yeah, this mechanical engineering thing, not engineering thing, mechanical, fixing cars, doing things with your hands. We need these people. And the thing is, I don't see any girl interested in that because they don't go with their dad.

Rosie (08:14)
Yes.

Roula (08:22)
and see how a car is fixed and get their curiosity in it. ⁓ You know, I remember my dad used to fix my dad can fix anything, anything. And specifically, he loved to pull cars apart and fix them. And I remember him doing this work. I always thought he's this guy is a genius. Give him whatever car and he will take it. And I never thought I could do that, too.

Rosie (08:33)
Yeah.

Yeah.

You'll figure it out.

Yeah, never crossed your mind. Yeah. And I loved my dad. I love him, but he never taught me how to do these things. He would do those things for me. But imagine if he taught me how to do those things. I haven't learned any of this until I'm an adult.

Roula (08:53)
I only thought this is something for guys and men and boys.

Yes.

And not everyone learned this. You learned it because of necessity.

Rosie (09:18)
Right, yeah.

Roula (09:19)
I discovered it's not impossible, it's doable. We can learn anything.

Rosie (09:23)
Yes, yes.

And it was out of necessity, but also because I'd had such bad experiences with mechanics. I'm sure you've had this experience. I had spent almost $10,000 trying to get my van fixed. I'd been to four different mechanics, all men. And each time the problem came back. And so not only had I drained my funds, but I had zero trust in mechanics at that point.

I thought I'm not throwing any more money into someone I don't even know. It's probably not even going to be able to fix it because they don't have the time to figure out. It's a complex issue with this van. There's so many different layers. They don't have the time to do that. They probably don't even want to. So they just go, yes, probably this. Let's move her on and get the money.

So yeah. Hey. Yes, yes, exactly. There are so many things I've done. So many.

Roula (10:15)
And you had to dig in in a nitty gritty detail and why the van is not working.

You know,

every time talking about jobs that only men do and not women. I don't know if I mentioned this before on the podcast, I have a fascination with beautiful trucks, cargo trucks like big trucks. They take my breath away. You know, here in the Netherlands, the trucks are painted in magnificent colors, always clean, wonderful lights.

Rosie (10:32)
Mm.

No, didn't know that. Wow.

Wow.

Yes.

Roula (10:56)
Even on the inside they have like red light, very smooth when they drive at night. So whenever I'm on the road and I see trucks, I get so distracted because I want to look at every detail in it.

Rosie (11:10)
didn't know that. it's true truck drivers really seem to take pride in their trucks. They really do. And I particularly like the older trucks. The shape of them is really like it's it is beautiful.

Roula (11:23)
They're beautiful. When we were in Egypt, the trucks were a disco disco lights like I cannot even describe them. They were eyes blinding even because of the light. But it's a desert and dark. They needed this light. And even there in Egypt with the humble quality, they took so good care of these trucks. And why I'm saying this is because

Rosie (11:26)
Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (11:51)
I even consider, do I want to be a truck driver? I love trucks so much, but no, I don't want to do that because I cannot stay awake at night to drive. need to sleep at 10 in the evening. But then I see ladies driving huge trucks. And I really get distracted, distracted to a point I'm afraid to make an accident because I'm fascinated by them.

Rosie (11:55)
Yeah.

yeah.

That's cool, yeah.

my God. Wow.

I want you to get a truck somehow. I don't know where you'd put this truck, but you want a truck. Maybe, maybe we can work on it together. You can make it look beautiful and I can help with the mechanic stuff. And if you want to help with that, you can do.

Roula (12:20)
May I don't want a Ferrari or a Porsche. I want a huge truck.

Prop

amazing that that's a good plan. So yeah this is also a job that mostly men do and women don't have the opportunity to discover is this something for me or not.

Rosie (12:37)
That would be fun.

Yeah.

Mmm. So true.

Roula (12:51)
Also like ⁓

airplane pilots.

Rosie (12:55)
yeah.

Roula (12:56)
Mostly are men. I have never traveled. I can say never because I'm sure I never traveled. And the pilot who welcomed us on board was a woman. Never.

Rosie (12:58)
Yep.

Yeah, I think it's the same for me. And imagine what that's doing to our subconscious. We never see someone that looks like us doing these roles. So why would it occur to us that we can do it?

Roula (13:25)
I the listeners, well, some of them will think we are full of shit talking like this. And others might think, yeah, I mean, how I never thought of that. Because I personally started thinking of this at a later age, noticing the stuff that I'm allowed or permitted or introduced to in comparison to...

Rosie (13:27)
Mm-hmm.

Ha ha!

Yes, yes.

Yes. Yes.

Roula (13:53)
On the other hand, a man can do anything. They can be a father at home. They can cook. All the big chefs are men. If they don't do a job, it feels to me it's more by choice than by conditioning, because, men don't do this. But we women want to do what men are doing to prove ourselves that we're equal.

Rosie (14:12)
I mean...

True. We're

capable even. It feels like we have to prove ourselves. But I think there are some challenges for men, at least in Australia there is, for example, nursing, mainly women. There are male nurses, but it's predominantly women. Primary school teachers, predominantly, yeah, absolutely. High schools, usually men, funnily enough, it switches. ⁓ Daycare, things like that, usually women.

Roula (14:39)
Teaching.

Rosie (14:49)
What else?

Roula (14:50)
I wonder why this brought me to the thought that I wanted to talk to you on the podcast about. ⁓ son, he has a male teacher this year, but that's the only male teacher in the entire school. My daughters and my son, they all had female teachers. His volleyball coaches are female. His crossfit coaches are female. ⁓

Rosie (15:05)
Wow.

Roula (15:18)
We need for boys, we need more male coaches, good ones. Good ones, not only for the boys, for the girls, it's we need diversity. ⁓ I like to think when my when Liam now goes to school, he has a male teacher because the approach, the thinking, the stuff are different. It's in our nature. And I like that. It's a shame that it's one time.

Rosie (15:24)
Yes, good ones, please.

Diversity, that's it, yeah.

Mm.

Roula (15:48)
experience in all these years has been at school.

Rosie (15:49)
Yeah,

yeah. I had one male teacher in primary school. So that was from year one to year seven. My year seven teacher was a male. And yeah, it is different. I enjoyed it.

Roula (16:02)
Yeah, Liam enjoys it very much to have a male teacher. He enjoys it also with the female, but in a way, the male teacher speaks his language. And for example, the games they play, ⁓ the let's say 3D printing now is very much in my son's head. Anime characters, swords.

Rosie (16:05)
I bet. Yeah.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Roula (16:29)
There is so many things sometimes it's fun to talk to a male about it.

Rosie (16:34)
Yeah, yeah, we need diversity. And ⁓ it's interesting, isn't it? I do wonder if I do go down the mechanic route, how are men and women going to react to that? I think in general, men would react differently to how women do. There's always going to be exceptions.

Roula (16:55)
But you will also might find that women will not trust you because it's a man job. They might

Rosie (17:00)
Yeah, see that

could, yeah, I'd hope that's not the majority, but you're right. Yeah. That would suck. I better do it then, huh? Rosie the traveling mechanic whose van doesn't currently drive, but it will.

Roula (17:07)
We only have one way to find out.

Yes.

Well, your van doesn't drive but it came a way of fixing instead of having 10 things not driving, now it has one thing not driving.

Rosie (17:26)
Yes, this is true. Hopefully this is the last problem. That's a good reframe. ⁓ I'm glad we had this discussion.

Roula (17:28)
because you fixed the other nine stuff.

Yeah, we want diversity in jobs. We want our kids to grow with both perspectives. ⁓ Actually, for daycare, ⁓ what can I say? Unfortunately, in the Netherlands, they're hiring less and less male at the daycare, especially for small children, preschoolers, because we had multiple cases of

Rosie (17:41)
Yes.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Roula (18:08)
kids abuse, sexual abuse at the daycare from male.

Rosie (18:14)
You see, that's happened here too. And I wonder if the statistics are a true reflection or if because women aren't suspected as much that it goes undetected. I don't know. It's, it's awful. But I think men don't feel safe to work in these industries because all eyes are on them. Everybody is suspicious and you got to be careful. You can't hold a kid's hand or, or anything, hug them, something that's probably quite normal in a daycare setting.

Roula (18:27)
Mmm.

Rosie (18:44)
So yeah, it's difficult.

Roula (18:44)
Yes. You

said something I appreciate that probably women are also evil at the daycare, but they're not being suspected as it, you know, because we are conditioned that women's sexual desires or perversion are not as forward as men's perversion. Is this the right word, perversion?

Rosie (18:54)
are. Yeah.

Mm. Mm.

Yeah, I, yeah.

Roula (19:14)
pervert.

Rosie (19:18)
Yeah, it's a complicated topic and people have very strong feelings about it. And rightfully so, we want our children to be safe. Of course we do, but I'm not sure being suspicious of men as a general rule is the way forward. I don't think that's the way forward.

Roula (19:20)
Mm.

Yeah, unfortunately it did mark something ⁓ and why they don't do it.

Rosie (19:46)
Mm, yeah. I wouldn't want to do a job where I don't feel safe. True. I wouldn't want to do a job where I don't feel safe. Imagine being a male in that workplace. Having to prove yourself.

Roula (19:48)
So it might have other psychological reasons. Sorry.

Yeah.

Rosie (20:03)
We know what that's like.

Roula (20:03)
On the other hand, there could be psychological reasons why women do this job and men don't. It's not only based on bad experiences. ⁓ Just like being a mechanic, why women don't challenge this and try to do it. There must be some psychological reason behind it. I'm not going to go into this because our episode is now

Rosie (20:14)
Right.

Roula (20:27)
21 minutes. One of the longest.

Rosie (20:28)
We're yabbering on that way. Yibby yabba

jibba jibba.

Roula (20:36)
Okay,

I'm gonna wrap it up. I hope we brought the message we want to bring clearly. And what's the message for the listener?

Rosie (20:42)
Who knows? Let us know. What would you

think if you had a female mechanic looking at your car, especially if you're a man? I want to know. Women too though. Let us know your thoughts. So curious.

Roula (20:55)
Yeah. Let us know. If you listen to the, to the end of this episode, we appreciate you. We really appreciate you. If you can help us by buying us a coffee by going to rosyandrula.com slash coffee. Is this correct, Rosie? And this will help us a lot to keep the, the podcast rolling at the minimum cost possible.

Rosie (21:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, that's the one. Yes, that's one.

keep rolling, rolling, rolling. Bye.

Roula (21:23)
Thanks for listening.

Bye.