245: A Glass of Wine, Really? Alcohol Culture, Addiction & What We Normalise

Rosie (00:00)
I'm happy to see you.

Roula (00:04)
Hi, Roxy. ⁓

Rosie (00:04)
It's been, yeah.

Hey, Rolla.

Roula (00:07)
How the situation with the flood in Australia where you are?

Rosie (00:11)
it is crazy. There's just, I'm not in, where I'm staying is not a flood, but two kilometers down the road, floodwater everywhere. It's crazy. They're helicoptering in supplies and people can't get into town. It's, yeah, it's crazy. ⁓ something was playing.

Roula (00:36)
it now I didn't know

Rosie (00:37)
Mine's not on silence

either, I got it.

Roula (00:42)
Well, I

was looking for something that one of our faithful followers, faithful loyal followers has written, so I wanted to read it. yeah, shall we start with that? OK.

Rosie (00:53)
okay. Yes, let's start with this,

this faithful

Roula (01:11)
I have posted something on Instagram and on TikTok about how, how people are afraid to talk to me because I might mention their topics on the podcast, but yeah. All right. And then I asked someone who said they have, he's an open book talk about everything. And that is, I don't know if I can.

Rosie (01:15)
Mmm.

yes, yes.

Roula (01:38)
pronounce his name correctly, but it's NZ Roscoe. OK. And I asked him, I think it's him because of the picture, what would be his ideal romantic, exciting and sexy time with his partner? And I got a wonderful reply. I have to share it.

Rosie (01:45)
yep, yep.

Mm-hmm.

⁓ yeah.

let's hear it.

I'm excited. Cause I just don't go on Instagram. So this is a surprise. Let's hear it. Awesome. Tik Tok.

Roula (02:09)
And this is on TikTok. All right,

here we go. This is what he said.

Rosie (02:15)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (02:17)
what a wonderful question. This has a lot to do with the connection we have as partners and a little to do with the physical parameters that some of us exist under. So laying in, reading, listening to music, snuggling, whatever the morning brings us that's in the morning. Then going out to a long brunch at one of our favorite cafes, followed by a trip to a special beach that we

can connect with as our spiritual home. A home made meal made by me. So this says that he can cook. He's a good cook. Maybe candle lights and an evening spent snuggling under the stars.

Rosie (03:00)
I like how detailed his response is, like it's the whole day. Yeah.

Roula (03:04)
gear.

step by step. I think I'm gonna take this whole thing and plan something with my husband based on that. Including going to the beach.

Rosie (03:08)
Mmm.

Do you have a beach there? Yeah.

Roula (03:23)
Yeah, why not?

So that was

a wonderful detailed reply. Yes, I like it.

Rosie (03:30)
I love that. Thank you

Roscoe. Yeah.

what are we talking about today?

I've got something that comes to mind while you think of the next one. Because you asked about how the floods are here and there's still, there's still an emergency situation. So it's, it's, the government has classed it as an emergency situation and it is improving, but it's still really bad. And given today's day and age with social media, a lot of people are in Facebook groups, keeping each other updated. You know, what's driving me nuts Rula?

Roula (03:38)
Come on!

Rosie (04:05)
the number of people, the number of people who are posting in there and they're posting anonymously because I think they're a bit self-conscious. Is the bottle open today? So the, the bottle shop, the liquor store. And I see these questions and I just go.

Roula (04:05)
What's driving you now?

Rosie (04:27)
What are your priorities? You're asking if the bottle shop is open. When people have lost their homes, there's still floodwater blocking people off from civilization. There's helicopters coming in to bring ⁓ clothes and food and water. And you're asking about the bottle shop. It pisses me off, Ruler. But am I being unreasonable? What are your thoughts on this? Because I just think it's ridiculous.

Roula (04:56)
What do you think their problem is?

Rosie (04:59)
Probably alcoholics. That's their way of coping. Maybe not alcoholics, but they have alcohol to cope with difficult situations. Perhaps. I have no sympathy.

Roula (05:08)
It is incredibly surprising. Yeah, how many people drink alcohol to just, it's a habit to numb whatever thing they have. It's an addiction. You are surprised, but I'm not surprised. And what's because I've been surprised before when every time at the supermarket, I saw

Rosie (05:21)
Hmm.

right.

Roula (05:37)
older people buying six, seven bottles of wines at once. Or when I was seeing and I'm saying older people, retired people, because I have something else to say about the younger people now that we're talking about alcohol. And when I see a retired couple or a person alone at the container where you have to put the recycled glass,

Rosie (05:44)
Mm.

Okay, yeah.

Roula (06:07)
with bags full of bottles of wines. It breaks my heart because don't tell me these bottle of wines are a collection of a year. I don't believe that these are a collection of even maybe a week because what I see them putting in their shopping carts. At the shop is flabbergasting me.

Rosie (06:26)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Roula (06:36)
how much

alcohol is being drunk every day by elderly people. It's because they're lonely, because they just want to forget or boredom. You know, this is when I was shocked. And that's why when you shared your experience, I felt, yeah, I've seen this.

Rosie (06:49)
Mmm.

sort of confirmed

what you've seen, yeah.

Roula (07:01)
Yeah. And we have an episode about, let's meet up for a glass of wine, how you and I feel that's not cool. ⁓ The younger people are drinking less and less alcohol, surprisingly. There has been a research here in the Netherlands that younger people are not... Well, you have a group who ⁓ binge drink until they...

Rosie (07:07)
yeah. Yeah.

Mm.

You think?

Yeah.

Roula (07:29)
get very drunk and up in the hospital. You still have this group of youngster, but in general, students and going out, there is less focus on alcohol and more focus on protein shake and fitness and it's an extreme or another.

Rosie (07:49)
Yeah, I mean, if

there's a reduction in young people drinking alcohol, in my mind, that's a really positive shift. And I've never been someone who's drank a lot of alcohol, ⁓ you know, experimented a bit in my early 20s. And now I don't even know the last time I had alcohol. I have no idea. It was probably a year ago. Not because I'm going out of my way to avoid it, but just because I don't feel like. And when I do have it, I don't necessarily like how it makes me feel.

Roula (08:19)
It's not in your habit. Yeah.

Rosie (08:21)
Right, yeah, it's not in my

habit, but Australia in general has a very big drinking culture, very big, and it's normalised. And a lot of people make comments, you know, they'll have a beer after work or if they've had a crappy day, they'll say, just want to go home and have a bottle of wine. And that's normalised language and behaviour. And to me, I think that's not healthy, like that.

is disordered drinking in my mind. I don't think a lot of people see it that way, but.

Roula (08:55)
It's with like with cigarettes, it took very long time for people to realize how bad cigarettes are for us. Drinking is even more accepted than cigarettes because it's still happening today. ⁓ Really, when you said couples, for example, they can't wait to put their kids to bed to have a glass of wine. They think they're relaxing, but actually they're putting poison in their body.

Rosie (09:01)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Yes.

Yeah.

Roula (09:24)
which is taken away from them their sleep and their true rest.

Rosie (09:29)
True, yep, I'm on the same page here.

Roula (09:32)
I used to drink until my body started to reject and drinking and I wasn't a big drinker. I would have a glass of whiskey every now and then. Maybe on the weekend, every evening, glass of whiskey. When I go out, I have a cocktail. I'm not a wine or a beer drinker. And at certain point, my body started rejecting alcohol, telling me, what are you doing?

Rosie (09:39)
right

Mm-hmm.

Mm. Yeah.

Mmm.

Roula (09:59)
Is this a really nice feeling? It's temporary, but I'm not sleeping well after I drink. I feel tired and sleepy, but then I wake up in the middle of the night and feeling restless.

Rosie (10:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (10:13)
I didn't grow up in a culture where young people drink a lot. I grew up in a culture where grownups gather and drink for hours and hours bottles of whiskey and Arak for the grownup. But I didn't grow up in a culture where, so when I used to go out with my friends, we'd drink vodka and the jus d'orange. That was our poison. I call it poison. But it wasn't until we drop dead or whatever.

Rosie (10:18)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Roula (10:40)
And you don't just go with your friends to have a glass of beer. It's not in the culture I grew up. When I came to the Netherlands, that was a culture shock for me. Specifically with my ex, every day he comes home, opens a bottle of wine. Every day.

Rosie (10:52)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Roula (11:00)
And I wonder, but why? In the beginning I drank because I thought I'm socializing with him. It's a habit. It's something to do together. And I always felt like shit afterwards. I mean, while drinking, sipping it and thinking it tastes, it tastes awful. Why?

Rosie (11:05)
Right, right.

I've never understood it while drinking it.

wonder what people listening will be thinking because I suspect you and I are in the minority Roula on our views on alcohol. People will say it's fine to have a bottle of wine, you know, every night or a glass of wine every now and then or whatever. ⁓ And I guess we're not in a position to tell you you're right or wrong, but maybe start questioning your drinking habits.

Roula (11:44)
We're not in a position, Rosie, no, but there are

multiple studies from big important universities and not pharmaceutical studies, really good studies. And I, as usual, I don't remember the names, but I follow these things and I really listen to them. So we're not bullshitting. The most recent studies, and I was listening to a Dutch podcast talking with multiple doctors.

Rosie (11:55)
No, yeah.

Roula (12:12)
and specialists and professors, they have gathered studies over and over again that even a glass of wine is not good for you. There is this understanding from cultural understanding that a glass of wine is healthy, it's good for you. No. What it does to your blood sugar, to your heart, to everything. So we're not here to advise, but there is more

Rosie (12:26)
Yes, there is, yeah. Yes. So that's a myth.

Mmm.

Roula (12:41)
with studies and evidence that alcohol is a poison. I mean, it's alcohol. How can that be poison?

Rosie (12:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it baffles me still that it is so normalized and accepted. Like you said, know, cigarettes used to be accepted and now not so much. People obviously still smoke, but I think it's a lot less. But there doesn't seem to have been much of a shift in alcohol.

Roula (13:12)
There is a shift, but it's going slowly. is a shift. ⁓ Dutch culture, for example, they are only fun and relaxed. Not all of them. Some of them, when they drink, they're just very disgusting, gluey. But in the Dutch culture, and even in the same research was there, the Dutch persons only relax, open up, become friendly and emotional.

Rosie (13:14)
Yeah.

Mmm.

when

they've had a drink.

Roula (13:41)
after their sixth or seventh beer. Before that, it's very reserved. People don't want to their authenticity, who they are. They don't want to share. Boring.

Rosie (13:44)
my goodness, yeah.

That's sad

to me. Yeah, that's sad.

Roula (13:59)
it has to do with culture yes i mean in cultures where there is no alcohol and i'm gonna name muslim cultures because ⁓ lebanon is christian and muslim and i say christian and muslim because yeah you have to have a religion over there to survive so they don't drink but they're so much fun they're open they're fun they're exactly exactly and

Rosie (14:20)
You don't

Roula (14:26)
This notion that with alcohol we open up, no, it's a deeper cultural limitation and beliefs that only they relax when they drink alcohol.

Rosie (14:35)
right.

Yeah. So do you think I'm justified in my reaction to these people asking if the bottle shop is open during the middle of a natural disaster?

Roula (14:53)
I see alcoholism as a sickness.

Rosie (14:56)
Yeah. So maybe you have more empathy for them.

Roula (15:01)
Yeah, but I wouldn't go and buy them alcohol to make them feel better. What were the answers to their questions?

Rosie (15:04)
Yeah, yeah, that's been, ⁓ a

lot of people are going, come on, mate, what are your priorities? But there were also people in there going, my goodness, I know, I think it might be open on this date. And there's just at least twice a day, there are posts in this group asking about the bottle shop.

Roula (15:32)
Yeah.

Rosie (15:32)
I...

I... yeah. I don't get it.

Roula (15:35)
I mean, I remember

during COVID, buying alcohol online like skyrocketed.

Rosie (15:39)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Roula (15:44)
deliveries for alcohol and even young people were able to buy them because you go to the supermarket online here you can order all your groceries online they deliver it to your home and so no there is absolutely no check yeah there is no check they just go online they're from their account of their parents or we have something

Rosie (15:55)
Yes. Yeah.

Wow! ⁓ my god! Wow!

Mmm.

Roula (16:11)
called Flink, which anyone can buy groceries from there without any check. Yeah. You're justified. You have all the right to feel it's so weird. Yeah.

Rosie (16:20)
Thank you. It is weird. think it's just, I think

it's disgusting. I am being judgmental. I know people are struggling and if you're an addict and all of a sudden you're cut off from whatever it is you're addicted to, that's probably not the safest approach, but I, ⁓ I can't pretend.

Roula (16:38)
No.

There are resources

out there. There are the 12 steps programs, talking to people. So if someone is feeling really ⁓ depending on alcohol, there are so many ways and to search and find help rather than stick around in this vicious circle. And now I'm feeling a little bit worried because there are

alcohol is a problem and if someone is listening, really don't want them to think that we're hating on them. We just, if you're not an alcoholic, exactly. If you think of yourself not an alcoholic, this episode will not offend you.

Rosie (17:16)
We might have to put a little disclaimer at the beginning.

Hmm. Yeah. Although there's people who, who probably are alcoholics and they are in denial. But you know what? We have been rambling a long time Roula over 15 minutes. So I think we're going to stop it there. It just is something that pisses me off. And that's all. Maybe someone's listening to this over a glass of wine. You do you.

Roula (17:43)
You're right.

Okay,

so if you drink wine, can still listen to our podcast. don't bash. Maybe you want to replace it with a cup of coffee. Decaf for in the evening, that's also good.

Rosie (17:59)
All right, bye.