30: Can Men and Women Really Be Just Friends?

ROSIE: [00:00:00] I have lost the list I wrote down from last time we recorded. How can you lose a 

Roula: list when you live in a van? Yeah. 

ROSIE: Yeah. Don't be so mean. It's true. Well, I, I don't know where I wrote it. I thought, oh, surely I would have put it on my phone or my computer. Can't find it. Thought, okay, maybe I wrote it down by hand.

ROSIE: I like writing on notebooks. Can't find it. It's okay. It's okay. But, 

Roula: yeah. We can. You know what you're going to do? I'm going to send you the script of our entire recording and you're going to go and search fuck's 

ROSIE: sake. Fuck's sake. Oh, you got another drink. So you got a hot drink and a cold drink. 

Roula: Coffee and water.

ROSIE: Love it. 

Roula: Mmm. I'm ready. You see, because we're recording half an hour later, I, I was able to be ready and send you the link. You're more awake. Yeah, 

ROSIE: it's too early for you. All right. [00:01:00] We're getting this tuned in. We're good. 

ROSIE: So you're going to ask me a bloody question or what? What am I doing here? 

Roula: I just thought of it now and I really don't know what your opinion on it or whether you're interested in this topic. 

ROSIE: Okay. 

Roula: Okay. Sometimes I sound like something I think about all the time, whatever.

Roula: I do feel that I like to have a male friend, like, like my girlfriends. But not a gay male friend. I want a friend, um, that is, that I can like go to the movies with or join me and my girlfriend for a drink. Just have a male friend, maybe even [00:02:00] friends more than one. And it seems that it's socially not possible.

ROSIE: Yeah, how dare you want a male friend? That's inappropriate. 

Roula: Am I, am I like being like crazy? So my question to you, why is it so hard to have a male friend?

ROSIE: Um, I can't hear you. What? It cut that out. What? 

Roula: I do have few answers, but you know, I want to hear your opinion too. 

ROSIE: You've always got something to say. You don't shut up. God. Well, I think it's quite, well, no. I was going to say it's quite easy to make male friends, but now I'm older. I don't know. I feel like the lines get blurred.

ROSIE: There's some people out there who just think if you're talking to a guy that you're flirting and that that [00:03:00] suggests you want to be more than friends, which, and then there's people who judge you like you couldn't possibly be close friends with a guy and not want more. It's just a load of rubbish. I think it's a, I think it's silly.

ROSIE: I don't think I'm answering your question. But I think it's a lot to do with society's weird fucked up points of view. That's what I reckon. 

Roula: It's my experience, my past experience when I was younger, and that's probably explained something that other people experienced. My past experience is that so I had a male friend, but he was only a friend with me because he wants to go out with my girlfriend or with my cousin or so it wasn't like a genuine friendship or i had a male friend we had great time really laughing conversations doing crazy stuff but then he falls in love with me and it's like yeah but [00:04:00] you know it's not gonna work we just be friends yeah yeah or i had a male friend who just was framed with me only to get into my pants.

Roula: And I love this expression. I thought you were going to say you loved it. Okay.

ROSIE: Of course you would love that expression. Yes. 

Roula: In a way it cost me kind of, uh, yeah, it's not going to work. And the older we get, let's say you have a partner and then your partner is jealous or it doesn't work or the friend you like to have as a male friend is the partner of your girlfriend and then that doesn't work.

Roula: So why is it so complicated? Why is it so 

ROSIE: complicated? Exactly. It's stupid. Why is it so complicated? I used to have a lot of close guy friends, but now I don't [00:05:00] have any, actually. 

Roula: The older we get, the more difficult it is. Unless we're, we're like in our pension age, probably.

ROSIE: Well, you might be getting close to that age now.

Roula: So like in 10 years or 14 years, I can have all the male friends I want. 

ROSIE: Getting jiggy with it in the HK home? 

Roula: Yeah, make puzzles together, take walks. Puzzles. Hmm. No, come on, don't do this. It's, it has to be like very, it's just a friendship. 

ROSIE: See, even I just did it, right? Insinuating that it's more, why is that the norm?

ROSIE: And like, when I first started dating my ex, she was so jealous. I was really close friends with a male teacher and we lived, we were in a regional area and they provide housing for you to live in, and we were [00:06:00] literally like, I was in one unit, he was in another. So we're very close and did everything together.

ROSIE: My ex was so jealous. It was disgusting. And then One day she said to me, Oh, it's okay. You can be friends with him. I just turned to her and said, it's, I don't need your fucking permission. Like I can be friends with him. Excuse me. It pissed me off so much. Like, yeah, thanks. Thanks for your permission. It's got nothing to do with you.

ROSIE: Really. 

Roula: Did she ever tell you why she's jealous from this friendship? And would she be jealous if you were friends with a girl? I mean, you like girls, that's more risky. 

ROSIE: Yeah. Yeah. She was jealous of that too. Um, anyone I would spend time with, which is just, that's not healthy. What the fuck? We're our own people.

ROSIE: This is a different topic actually, but back to being friends with guys. I think it needs to be normalized more. Why not? Guys are great to hang around with. [00:07:00] Why do we only have to have girlfriends? And why do people think that being friends with a guy means you fancy, fancy them, or you want to sleep with them, or they want to sleep with you, and you couldn't possibly just be friends?

ROSIE: But I've been caught out before, right? When I was in my early twenties, there was this guy who was really nice. And that's like two days ago. No, ten years ago, Two days ago. Sorry, my memory, 

Roula: you know, I have memory problems. Oh yes, yes, 

ROSIE: sorry, I'll be nice. Yes. I have memory problems. Anyway, this guy, he's nice, met him through a university friend and we'd sort of chatted at a party, whatever.

ROSIE: I thought it was very clear it was platonic, right? And we arranged to go to the movies to see Star Wars. And like, I was like, this is really cool. And I gave him a lift in my car. Um, afterwards we went back to his place. Like I, maybe I was just oblivious, but I [00:08:00] thought, you know, totally normal. And then he tries to make out with me and I really, I really had to push him away.

ROSIE: I'm like, Whoa, no, no. And I felt quite unsafe actually at that point. And I'm like, I need to get out of here. But in my mind, I'm like, what signals did I put off? And my friend said to me. Rosie, you went to the movies with him. It's obvious that you want, that something else is going to happen. I'm like, what?

ROSIE: No, it's not. I literally just wanted to go see a movie. Is that so wrong? 

Roula: That's true, that's true. So maybe, you know, when we talk about consent and having things clear, probably the best thing is to already to make these lines not blurred anymore, and I really like the song Blurred Lines by Pharrell Williams.

Roula: It's 

ROSIE: disgusting. It's not Pharrell Williams. No, it's Rubber and Thick. Robin Thicke. Ah, that song is questionable, actually. Yeah, I know, but it has a nice melody. It is 

Roula: catchy. It's catchy. We're not going to [00:09:00] now, um, polarize the song. 

ROSIE: Fine, fine. Okay, 

Roula: where was 

ROSIE: I? 

Roula: Oh, you're so forgetful. Yes. You were saying boundaries and consent.

Roula: Yes. Yeah, like, it's not easy to, to be a friend with a male friend and then say, look, we're just friends. We're not going to try anything like I have my life here. You can't have this conversation. And it's good to have some, I don't know, like guidelines for friendship, guidelines for friendship, because we can learn so much from each other.

Roula: And it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. The only man I have perspective from, and I talk to, and it's my husband. And yes, if we're sitting with a group, there are couples with their husbands, but There are also limits because everyone is scared for what they say [00:10:00] or the woman to put down their husband for whatever they say or I don't know.

Roula: It's not like I'm getting more information. So the only opinions I have are from my husband, but I do like to hear opinions from other male men. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I have this a little bit on my podcast. Cause I have men, I guess, and they dig die with all the questions I want to answer. You really 

ROSIE: do, which I love about your podcast.

ROSIE: Oh my God. But yes, if you're listening and you identify as a man, please message us like, do you want female friends just as a platonic friend? Nothing else. Do you think it's normal? Do you think it's acceptable? Why? Why not? 

Roula: It's, it can be inspiring and like, really a good thing. So that's good. Let us hear what you think, male friends.

Roula: And if you're a [00:11:00] female and have a good relationship with a male friend, we also want to hear it. 

ROSIE: Yes. 

Roula: How? 

ROSIE: How did you make it work? How did you make it work? And did it continue to work? Oh my God. Thank you for listening. Bye. Bye.