35: Overcoming Language Anxiety and Embracing Your Accent

Roula (00:00)
Do you have a topic before I chop it? No, come on. I love it when you have a topic.

Rosie (00:02)
No, hit me. Let's go.

I'm enjoying this.

I'm enjoying you taking the lead.

Roula (00:12)
No, but I also sometimes it's exhausting. It's good to have you taking the lead.

Rosie (00:31)
this has come up a couple of times for me recently. Because, you know, we both have podcasts other than this one. We have guests from all around the world. And you speak four languages. And I've got a weird accent. You've got a different accent to me. What? Like, okay, no, I'm going to speak from my experience and then you can you can tell me how it feels. When I go to another country.

I'm gonna say France, because I learned French at school and I've done a couple of French exchanges and worked as an au pair over there. But I am so self-conscious to speak because I don't wanna pronounce anything incorrectly. And I'm so worried about that that I just won't speak. So someone, Rilla, who knows four languages, did you go through the same? And if so, how the hell did you get over it?

Roula (01:26)
I definitely went through the same and with the Dutch language I felt that I didn't have a choice. Look at school from from my first day at school it was already in French.

Rosie (01:36)
Ehh

Okay.

Roula (01:45)
And Arabic is the Lebanese language. Songs are in English. And I started listening to music at a very, very, like 10 years old. And then school was also English and French and Arabic. So these languages are for me very natural. I grew up with them. I don't think about them. But the Dutch language I had to learn. And learning it was not easy. Speaking it was even more difficult because I was

Rosie (01:55)
Mmm.

Okay, yeah.

Roula (02:16)
Scared? this is touching on a deeper topic actually. I was not scared to be judged that I'm speaking wrong. I was scared to be judged that I'm an Arab person who cannot speak Dutch correctly.

Rosie (02:17)
Mmm.

Wow, yeah, wow

Roula (02:34)
So it's really different reason why, because I wanted to show that being from Lebanon and Arabic, I'm a smart, I can speak the language, I don't have a crazy accent. These are my thoughts, you know, like 24 years ago. That made me nervous. And now I don't care much. I still have an accent and I embrace it actually. The only...

Rosie (02:36)
that is

Mmm.

Mm.

Roula (03:04)
Guys or girls that make fun of my accent are my daughters. That's the only thing. No one else. That's my trauma. You know when you're little, your parents are your trauma, trauma. And when you have children, older children, they are your trauma.

Rosie (03:10)
So cruel.

Yeah! That your trauma.

Roula (03:22)
taught me not to be judgmental when people have an accent.

Rosie (03:25)
Right.

Right. Yes. I want to know something else. And I'm thinking of a particular conversation we had Rilla. I think it was when I was on your podcast. And I think you might've asked if I like cooking. And I thought you said cocaine. And I had to double check, right? But there's also been instances when we're recording on this podcast. I'm like, what? What'd you say? Like, what? What? Cause I'm not.

comprehending and I think it's happened for you too with me. You're like, what are you saying? But do you feel offended when I'm like, huh? What? Like, is that offensive?

Roula (04:10)
offended at all, at all. Really not. Because I think you, your English is so bad you don't understand what I'm

Rosie (04:13)
Yeah... Good.

The truth comes out now!

Roula (04:29)
I worked a few years ago and the boss was from Australia.

Rosie (04:38)
Yeah.

Roula (04:40)
entire company couldn't understand a word coming out of his mouth.

Rosie (04:45)
We do have a pretty weird accent.

Roula (04:48)
It's... I have... like, I know Australian people and I do understand their accent, but this guy, his Australian was next level unclear. Weird! It's... you stand there and he's talking and you're already disengaged because you're thinking...

Rosie (04:54)
Mmm

You

Like a different language.

Roula (05:13)
What are these words he's speaking? What's the task am I supposed to do? He's the boss, so I have to step up my game and deliver. But I don't understand what he's requesting.

Rosie (05:14)
What is he saying? Yeah!

Eugh!

Roula (05:30)
It was tough, but you don't have this accent.

Rosie (05:34)
Well, good. I just have bad English, do I?

Roula (05:37)
You do have it when you are, when you used to have the community call with Australian ladies. There were moments when I was completely lost. have no idea what you ladies are talking about.

Rosie (05:43)
Yeah.

Isn't that interesting

when you're around certain people, you almost mimic their accent. I think there's a name for that.

Roula (05:56)
Yeah, I noticed...

I don't know. Chat GPT can you help us?

Rosie (06:01)
Yeah,

you talk I'm gonna Google

Roula (06:05)
Years ago, I asked my mom this question because my mom is originally Palestinian, but when she left Palestine, she was maybe 10 years old. Of course, she grew up in a Palestinian community. And knowing my mom all my life, she spoke only Lebanese accent. And one day, I don't know why on that day I noticed that.

She was meeting with her Palestinian part of the family and she was speaking the Palestinian accent. And I was like, but this is my mom? Like, I don't know her like this. So I told her, I told the mom, it's so strange that when you're sitting with them, you're speaking like them. And it really strikes me because it was the first time that, is this my mom? Like, who's that person?

Rosie (06:39)
Wow.

Mmm!

Who is

this person?

Roula (07:02)
I understand

every word but it's a different way of talking.

Rosie (07:06)
That's bizarre. Google says it is called linguistic convergence. It's also called linguistic accommodation, psychological phenomenon, also called mirroring or the chameleon effect. It's interesting because I lived in England for a few years. Obviously the Australian accent, I think you could say is almost the complete opposite. But I began to mimic my peers and their accent. I still sounded Australian to them.

But if I was to speak to an Australian, they would go, you sound British. What? And if I now talk to people in the UK, my accent shifts a little bit.

Roula (07:50)
Yeah, possible, possible. I do mimic Dutch people because sometimes I hear someone speaking in Dutch and it's such a nice fancy way of talking and I mimic it because it just sounds so good and I want to learn it. This is why when I speak Dutch, I'm quiet. Like there is this serenity in me speaking Dutch, not to my kids, never serenity.

Rosie (07:52)
Naturally.

Yeah.

Hmm. Never serenity.

Roula (08:17)
Having

an interview in Dutch or having a conversation. I feel so serene and my thoughts are clear. There's only in my thoughts Dutch. Because I think that's also the perfectionist part to me. I want to drink the best Dutch I have. You know? So I mimic them and I don't know if they notice. That would be really embarrassing.

Rosie (08:27)
Hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

I bet they do.

I reckon they do. I reckon they do.

I remember in high school I had a my French teacher who taught French she wasn't French she lived in France for maybe four or five years and she said to us she got to a certain point where she was thinking and dreaming in French

So what language, Roula do you think and dream in?

Roula (09:14)
Yeah, that's a good one. thought my Dutch will be my extra language until I start dreaming in Dutch. Okay. At most of my dreams there is no conversation.

Rosie (09:24)
Mm-mm.

Roula (09:31)
And I can't really remember. I think I dream in Dutch because I remember this feeling that I dreamt in Dutch and I was like, wow, Dutch is officially my language now. Saying to myself. I didn't share this with anyone because these are thoughts in my mind about my languages and where I go. yeah, I dream in Dutch. I do.

Rosie (09:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roula (10:00)
Mostly there is no talking in my dreams. I don't know. That's a nice conversation, also dreams. But if there is a conversation, it's Dutch. I do dream a lot about my father, Lebanon, et cetera, but there are no talking in there. There's only like adventure and weird situations. Bad communicators.

Rosie (10:03)
Interesting.

Yeah.

God, yeah. So when you're speaking, are you translating from one language to another? Like when you talk to me in English, are you thinking in English? Really? And then when you speak in Dutch, are you thinking in Dutch?

Roula (10:36)
Yeah, yeah, yes.

Yeah, I don't even think I'm thinking. They're very natural to me. French, now I think. It used to be natural, but because I don't speak French that often, and I did not forget it, only with French, and that's the tricky part. Some French people, I go with the flow when I speak, and like I've never stopped speaking. With other French people, not a word of French can come out of my mouth.

Rosie (10:43)
It just happens, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

What?

Roula (11:10)
It's it depends how safe and comfortable I feel with others. And I think in the beginning I had this with Dutch. If I feel safe, not judged and comfortable with the person, I would speak Dutch better than the other way around.

Rosie (11:15)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm.

Mmm. is so fascinating. So fascinating.

Roula (11:32)
And when it

comes to Arabic, I feel like I have to talk so much to say something very short in other language. I can't find, I don't have like the quickiness to find the words to reduce my sentences.

Rosie (11:44)
okay,

yeah. You're so clever, Roula.

Roula (11:53)
thank you.

Rosie (11:55)
You are most welcome.

Roula (12:00)
Okay, I have a request from the listeners. I would love them in whatever language they are if they can speak in a voice message in their own language and translate what it is. Just that, just that. Just be nice, okay?

Rosie (12:11)
Mmm. Yes, please. Yes. That would be so nice.

Yeah, please!

Roula (12:21)
And before we finish, all these languages, Arabic is the only language where the cursing words can have a huge dictionary.

Rosie (12:32)
Yeah.

Roula (12:33)
Really, like I cannot express how much Arabic people can have the worst cursing language ever. That's it.

Rosie (12:40)
Wow. Wow.

Okay, we'll end it there.

Roula (12:44)
Thank you for listening.