58: Mispronouncing Words: Embarrassing Or Who Cares?

Rosie (00:11)

Let me just turn the fan off. Okay. Yep.

Roula (00:16)

Okay, Rosie, we record in English, and English is one of the languages I speak. And sometimes I mispronounce things. How does this make you feel as an English-born speaker?

Rosie (00:19)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I notice it. Yes, I would say I notice, but it doesn't irritate me or annoy me or anything like that.

Roula (00:37)

First, do you notice?

Rosie (00:51)

Yeah, I don't know. feel kind of, in fact, I think part of it too, because English isn't your first language. It's like this admiration that you can speak English so well.

And I'm trying to think if I feel the same way when a native English speaker mispronounces something, like am I being discriminatory here? But I think what I think, you haven't even asked a question. Should I let, did you ask a question? What was the question again?

Roula (01:21)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. mean,

it's not so welcome. My question is, when I mispronounce something, do you notice? Do you feel like you want to correct me?

Rosie (01:28)

Yeah. Yes.

Usually no, no. I think if I can understand the meaning, there's no need. Not in this context. Not in this context. If you were asking me for feedback for, I don't know, a job interview at a high ranking English speaking company or something, yeah, maybe I would correct you, but to help, right? In this con, we're just having a conversation on a podcast. If you pronounce something differently and I understand it.

What's the problem? If you pronounce something and I don't understand, that's when I go, Hey, what? And you'll say it and I'll go, and I'll say it how I pronounce it. That's what I might do, but it's not a, I wouldn't say it's a correction. Yeah. Cause I think.

Roula (02:18)

I like that.

Rosie (02:24)

And I feel like we've discussed this before on an episode, but I'm very shy to speak another language. I'm not fluent in any other languages, but I'm very shy to do it because I'm worried I'll say something wrong. And this hasn't happened, but if someone were to correct me, that would just shoot my confidence. I would just never want to talk again.

Roula (02:49)

Huh.

Rosie (02:50)

So I don't like being corrected if there's not a need. And I've had...

Roula (02:54)

And what

if they laugh instead of correcting you? yeah, like sometimes, okay, I experience this, so I say something wrong. Okay, I mean, I speak three languages fluently, there's three of them not my native languages, so I do make mistakes, of course. And sometimes when I say something wrong in Dutch, the person I'm talking to just laugh like,

Rosie (02:58)

Like, laugh at me?

Right. Yes, yeah.

Roula (03:24)

how you say it or and then I don't know what's worse laughing at what I'm saying or correcting me.

Rosie (03:24)

fuck off.

Yeah, that's just unnecessary. That doesn't feel nice. They're not having a giggle with you and it's together. It's, I don't like that at all. I don't like it. And I've seen people, I see it in content. You know, I have, I've had friends or come across people or colleagues and there's certain words they just get wrong all the time. All the time. And should I give an example? I'll give an example. Yeah, without naming.

Roula (03:59)

without naming.

Rosie (04:01)

So this person referred to the board game chess as chest.

Roula (04:07)

Okay, it's typical mistake.

Rosie (04:08)

Yeah. And

it does make you laugh a little bit, right? I...

didn't correct them, but I was around this person a lot. And for whatever reason, chess would come up fairly often because they liked to play chess.

Roula (04:27)

So they're good at playing chest

Rosie (04:28)

They

thought they were good at playing chest They were not. because I'm bad at playing chest and I beat them anyway. And I went, I thought you were good. I'm like the worst chess player there is. Initially I was like, maybe she just accidentally said that. Like we all stumble over our words sometimes. And then it kept happening. And I was like, I know what they're talking about, but, like that's just so wrong. chest means something different.

Roula (04:31)

OK.

Rosie (04:58)

chest or chess.

and my way around it.

in conversation.

Or maybe if they said, I love playing chest and I'd say, are you good at chess? Instead of saying, are you good at it? Are you good at chess? To see if in their head they go, that's right. It's chess. no, no, no.

Roula (05:22)

What if they think you're pronouncing it wrong?

Rosie (05:26)

my god, I never-

Roula (05:31)

This is why the repeating's just correcting you!

Rosie (05:33)

Back

and forward, back and-

I think I once said, you know, it's chess, right? Or something, I can't remember what I did, but I got to the point of this is actually irritating me. Not that it's hurting me, but irritating. I'm like, it's not chess, for goodness sake. So yeah, that's an example. But what about with kids? If a kid says something, here's an example.

I've got two examples, which one should I do? You have an example? Okay, you go first, you go first.

Roula (06:13)

example of two for kids.

Okay. My son, since he was four years old, is extremely fluent in English. His English is excellent. Only the word three, he says free

Rosie (06:21)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Roula (06:34)

He can speak very difficult words like excavator and notary and he has really good vocabulary. But the word three, he says, it's free And I loved it. I loved it. I couldn't wait for him to say the word free in the context of three. And that when he got an older, he turned eight, I think, and he was talking and I asked him,

Rosie (06:40)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Roula (07:04)

Do you do it on purpose, saying the number three as free He said, no, it's free. And I said, no, no, I'm just asking because it is three. I said, is it? I always thought it's free Because he never he doesn't write, he only hears it. And that was that was very funny.

Rosie (07:06)

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, true, yeah.

Roula (07:31)

because some people can speak really really good a language and there are some words hard to pronounce probably or the same thing.

Rosie (07:35)

Mm-mm. Mm. So was he offended? Was

he upset with you? Yeah.

Roula (07:41)

No, no, no,

it was because I was so enjoying hearing this words from him. He didn't mind.

Rosie (07:47)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay, this is an example of me. So as a kid I used to think Ricochet. I used to think it was pronounced Ricketed.

Roula (07:53)

Doko, give me your examples.

Rosie (08:06)

Yeah, mean it is spelled rather weirdly. No, yeah, but if, okay, hang on. I'm trying to think how it's spelled. How is ricochet spelled? Do you know how?

Roula (08:08)

It doesn't even sound the same.

R-i-C-C-H-C-O-C-H-E-T.

Rosie (08:20)

Yeah, where did I get, where

did I get ricketed from? I don't know, but in my head, in my head.

Roula (08:24)

because

maybe the letter SH for you sounded like G twice. Now I'm, yeah, re-cook it.

Rosie (08:33)

I don't know where

I got it from, but to me it fits. Like if something's ricocheting off the walls, it's ricketing. It just fit in my head. And I'd never had to say it out loud. I was so embarrassed when I realized it was, yeah, the wrong pronunciation. And I can't remember how I was corrected, but I was just mortified. And then I think of one when I was an adult. I was visiting a family friend or

family friends in England and I'd just been in France and I said, yes, I saw the sacre sir. And they went, you mean the sacre-coeur? And I just went, fuck, in my head I'm like, fuck. I went, yes. And then I just continued speaking, but they didn't make a big deal out of it. And I'm like, okay, cool. I corrected, I know now, embarrassing, but we continued the conversation. So that was okay. I think, you know, if they didn't say anything, I'd continue pronouncing it wrong.

Roula (09:28)

Yeah, sometimes it's good to correct. You know, just sacre coeur is sacred heart and sacre soeur is sacred sister. soeur is sister.

Rosie (09:33)

Yeah, I know! Yeah!

Is it? true. I didn't think of that.

That's so true. That's so true. Totally different meaning. Yeah. Sometimes.

Roula (09:42)

Yeah, it's good to correct others in a nice

way, playful way. And if you know them, if you can have a conversation. I mean, if it's one time someone talking to me said something wrong, and as you said, I understood what it is, it's fine. It's not a big deal.

Rosie (10:01)

What's the problem? What about this? What about when someone says a saying wrong? For example,

What's it saying? No, no, no, no, no, I did.

Roula (10:10)

Are you talking about me? Because

I say a saying very wrong all the time.

Rosie (10:16)

Do you?

I do too.

Roula (10:19)

Especially the Dutch ones and I swear my husband can't Cannot stop laughing every time I say the wrong saying in Dutch because he understands what I mean But he's like like no one ever will say it like this ever

Rosie (10:30)

Yeah, that's so wrong.

Yeah, so

Roula (10:36)

Like hit

the nail with the hammer like when you say something right what do you say like you hit the nail on the head like I say you hit the nail with the hammer

Rosie (10:43)

Hit the nail on the head. Yeah.

Like in that situation, I wouldn't correct you. What do you think? Do you think I should correct you? Really? so maybe you need a conversation with the person. If this is someone you're around a lot. Because, right. Not only are you doing it wrong.

Roula (10:56)

Yeah, yes. Yeah.

a very playful way.

Yeah, it's like,

my god, it's hilarious what you said. I know exactly what you mean, but the right saying is this and that. I think my husband doesn't even bother to correct me. He enjoys laughing at these things that I say that he doesn't want me to correct them.

Rosie (11:14)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

yeah.

Well, it adds humor. I think it's great. The meaning's the same.

Roula (11:32)

Yeah.

Rosie (11:33)

So yeah,

is it acceptable then to correct people? Can we do that? here's an example. Here's an example. Because I had this question because someone told me about it. They were at work

they had an incident at work where a colleague was saying something incorrectly. And if it's once, maybe you let it pass, but they kept saying the word incorrectly at a staff meeting. And my friend was just going, what? Like, what do I do? They're an idiot.

I don't know. Do you correct someone at work?

Roula (12:08)

Okay.

At work, that would be really embarrassing because it might undermine your knowledge. Does she really know what she's talking about? Is this word right? No, I don't think it's, I'm not sure. It's difficult at work when you're in a meeting and you make lot of mistakes. It's already, it's so tough to be speaking to your colleagues or to whomever and then make a mistake and someone make

Rosie (12:15)

Right, right.

Yeah! Yeah!

Hmm

Yeah, yeah.

Roula (12:40)

it's so embarrassing. I would not at work. No, maybe in a private. Yeah.

Rosie (12:43)

Yeah, I probably wouldn't either.

I mean, if, if I was in a meeting, for example, with external stakeholders and my colleague was pitching an idea to them and said something incorrectly, not just mispronouncing a word, but perhaps, or maybe it's a mispronunciation, but the meaning is changed. that case, I would correct because there's an external stakeholder there and it's, we want them to correctly understand the message.

Roula (13:11)

Yes,

that's a critical moment.

Rosie (13:11)

I think that's important.

Right. Yes. But for me, if I'm correcting someone, don't be a dickhead about it. Don't talk down to them. We all make mistakes and maybe you just didn't know. Maybe you were like me and thought Ricochet was ricketed.

Roula (13:28)

like architecture or architechture

Rosie (13:31)

he's one. He's one I've just remembered when I was a kid. I don't know where we were. We're on holiday. Me, Mum, Dad, and I think my sister had already been born. And we're driving down the high street of some town and there's this shop, this French shop. And Dad goes, that's a weird name. Moe-et-Toei.

Roula (13:33)

It's difficult.

Rosie (13:55)

It was moi et toi.

He was being dead serious. And I thought it was hilarious. And we all just, we all had a giggle. went, what, where? And he pointed out the sign and we had a giggle. you know, he learned how to say it properly. And then there was one.

Roula (14:00)

That's a language issue.

Rosie (14:21)

one with my sister. remember when she was little, cause she's nine years younger. Okay. Just for context. was a teenager and she was a little girl and there was a lingerie shop and she said, what's lingerie?

Roula (14:29)

continue to progress.

Rosie (14:36)

And in that case, I had no idea what the fuck she was talking about. Like linger it, huh? What, Anyway, so that's another one, but it's just, just have fun and go, no, it said like this or whatever. Don't go, you said it wrong, you idiot. Don't you know how to say it?

Roula (14:36)

That's so cute!

There is also something before we wrap up. didn't think this episode was going to be so long. All my life here in the Netherlands for 24 years, I live in an international environment. work in international companies. I say I didn't travel the world. The world came to me because the various nationalities I live and work with is just incredible.

Rosie (14:55)

No, we're going on a night.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Roula (15:18)

of course, like you have the ones that speak Spanish who can't pronounce the letter V. So all the V are B and the Russian who also have a certain kind of accent myself, how I speak, we hear a lot of wrong words, etc. And believe me, Rosie, like they just, they pass like if it's a real word, if it's a correct word. It's just

Rosie (15:31)

Mmm.

Yeah, what's the problem? Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (15:46)

so natural and so fun. It doesn't matter.

Rosie (15:47)

I love that. I love that.

And even for native English speakers, it's pronounced differently based on where you live. So yeah, who's to say what's right or wrong? If we understand each other, I think it's okay. So sometimes correct people, sometimes not. Right. Let's talk. Yes. Agreed. Even if it's wrong, even if it's ricketing off the walls, even if you're wearing your lingerie inside out.

Roula (15:58)

Correct?

Let's talk and that's the important. It's good to talk. Yes, even if it's wrong.

Ha!

Ha!

Rosie (16:18)

or confused on Mowby at Toey.

Roula (16:22)

That's a wonderful ending. Thank you for listening everyone. Bye