60: What Makes Tattoos So Popular?

Roula (00:00.547)

hands and then I went to the hand therapist. Okay, this woman studied for years and stayed nights and nights studying and preparing for her exams and years of practice and apprenticeship at the hospital and all she could give me was this to play with so I relieved the pain in my hands.

Rosie (00:01.358)

Mm.

Rosie (00:29.838)

Does it help?

Roula (00:31.023)

Really? Like I didn't do any of this education but I already had one at home.

Rosie (00:35.465)

Right. And does it help? Yeah.

Roula (00:37.319)

Really? So this is what I have? No, it doesn't help.

Rosie (00:43.362)

doesn't help. But it feels nice to squeeze.

Roula (00:46.439)

It doesn't help, but it feels nice. Hoping it will help. I don't give up easily, so I'm gonna keep playing with this thing until the end of time.

Rosie (00:59.054)

Gosh, because you have, is it carpal tunnel you said you have in your, yeah.

Roula (01:04.953)

Yes. Yes.

Okay.

Rosie (01:09.963)

Right, what's next?

Roula (01:12.615)

have a question from a friend. She didn't speak in, but she said it to me. She asked me to talk about. Did you to talk about tattoos? Are they disgusting? Or are they artistic? Is it freedom? Or is it stupid to do something like this on your skin? And she really wants to hear things about this.

Rosie (01:17.485)

Okay. Okay.

Rosie (01:26.849)

Hmm?

Rosie (01:42.295)

Hmm. Well, without hesitation, I think it's art and it is freedom. It's freedom of expression. It's putting beautiful art on you, whether or not you think the art is beautiful is a different story. But I think people get tattoos for different reasons as well. Maybe some people who get a tattoo, it's not because it's a beautiful piece of art. I don't know. Why did you get your tattoo?

Roula (02:10.764)

okay. Well, I have three and the three are with story, okay?

Rosie (02:14.625)

Mm-mm.

Roula (02:17.593)

My very first tattoo, well now I'm going to show you because it's going to be on video. this under this tattoo, I have here Native American feathers. OK, under this, I covered it and that tattoo represented for me freedom. So the first thing in the first month that I did when I moved to the Netherlands is shave my head and have this tattoo. And I had a tattoo as feathers because it's represent, I mean,

Rosie (02:27.849)

Okay. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Rosie (02:42.294)

Yeah.

Roula (02:46.821)

In reality, it's not freedom because the indigenous people are exterminated. But the feathers just represented freedom for me. I want to feel free with the colors I put on my body. I want to feel free with the expressions I give to myself that makes me happy. And then I made another tattoo on my back, which is the names of my daughters.

Rosie (02:53.452)

Mmm.

Rosie (03:07.594)

Mm-hmm.

Roula (03:16.839)

And I have a third tattoo here, which is Lebanon. And I made this when there was war in Lebanon in 2016. And I felt that I need to bleed with them because it broke my heart. Because I lived the war, so I know what it is. And I did this small tattoo. The funny thing is that by the time I visited Lebanon with my first tattoo, no woman there had a tattoo.

Rosie (03:30.209)

Mmm.

Rosie (03:45.012)

Yeah.

Roula (03:46.167)

it was like the eyes are popping out of their faces but now like everyone has a tattoo in Lebanon everyone

Rosie (03:52.799)

Yeah, okay. Uh-huh.

Roula (03:55.791)

Not the Hezbollah people, okay? This are not Lebanese. Anyway, this was just in between. We don't talk politics, but I have to mention this. And yes, is it some people find it disgusting? Yes. Some people tell me, telling me, but why do you do this to your body? This is, this is disgusting.

Rosie (04:20.402)

Mmm.

Roula (04:24.205)

Why? Why do you... What's the word that you said, chawwih we? Make something ugly. Like... Is there a word when you on purpose make something ugly?

Rosie (04:31.147)

Mmm.

Rosie (04:37.355)

Yeah, know what you're getting at. I don't know the word. Yeah, disfigured. Yeah.

Roula (04:39.387)

disform, disfigure, yeah, why are you disfiguring your body with a tattoo?

Roula (04:50.427)

And the simple answer is that it's my body. I'm not disfiguring yours. I'm not disrespecting you. I'm not being a bad person. I'm just expressing my art, my feelings. Though, know, tattoos have also been a sign of gangs and representing criminals. But these days are gone.

Rosie (04:53.685)

my body my

Mm-hmm.

Roula (05:19.889)

These are in the past, I think, because everyone now has an expressive.

Rosie (05:21.523)

Maybe, You know, something that comes up a lot is, why did you get a tattoo? Imagine what you look like when you're older and wrinkly. And I just think, well, you're going to be old and wrinkly any what's the diff? What? Like, I don't get it. Yeah. And I'll be wrinkly, but

Like, I don't understand Roula Do you understand that argument?

Roula (05:52.387)

have this argument, it's my the answer I give from all my heart, I will get old and wrinkly and have wonderful memories that I had the freedom to tattoo what I want to have. So what where I'm going towards my grave, what am I gonna worry for?

Rosie (06:01.565)

Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Rosie (06:13.14)

Right.

Roula (06:15.205)

And having a tattoo does not make, in the past, as I said, like when I was in Lebanon and I had a tattoo, and this is 24 years ago, in some countries and places there is a stigma. If a woman has a tattoo, then she is easy and she is not respectful. There is the stigma on women having tattoos. And I hope that it changed.

Rosie (06:30.933)

Mm-mm.

Roula (06:40.991)

in some man's eyes it still did not change unfortunately but this is with everything I think both genders can be judgmental so yes having a tattoo is very personal it has nothing to do with the other person

Rosie (06:44.456)

Hmmmm

Rosie (06:57.812)

Mm. Mm.

Roula (07:01.339)

And if someone finds it disgusting, they should not have a tattoo. But this doesn't mean they have to look at the other person as disgusting because they have a tattoo.

Rosie (07:12.969)

Yeah, yeah

What about?

certain professions that don't let you have tattoos on display. Do you think

Roula (07:26.779)

Like what?

Rosie (07:29.354)

I knew you were gonna fucking ask that and I don't have an example of fucking... Well in teaching, not anymore, but you used to have to cover up your tattoos, not anymore. What's another example?

Roula (07:43.662)

lawyer maybe?

Rosie (07:44.902)

Maybe I actually can't think of an exact, but I know there's professions where you can't. But also the other thing is.

Roula (07:51.633)

It's not a profession that you can't have a tattoo. It's who's hiring and the company culture. Because if you have a tattoo on your body and you're even a surgeon, it's not infecting others because there's procedure. It has nothing to do with your tattoo. You can have a snot on your nose and that would be more dangerous or sneeze. So it's not really the profession that require no tattoos. It's the person.

Rosie (07:56.297)

Mmm, true.

Rosie (08:02.641)

Hmm. What's the problem, yeah?

Rosie (08:17.705)

True.

Roula (08:19.129)

It's the idea about that profession that made it like this.

Rosie (08:21.512)

And what is that about? and this is a stereotype, but I find a lot of people from your generation are mortified when their children get tattoos because they say you're ruining your employment prospects. Like you're just throwing your future away.

Roula (08:38.903)

Yeah, from my generation that's definitely what our parents told us.

Rosie (08:43.047)

Yeah, why do you think...

Roula (08:45.103)

Yeah, because back then, you...

I don't know if that's the same experience for men, but I do think like if a man has a sleeve, yeah, I do think it's the same experience for them getting a job. Because also men are judged if they have a sleeve tattoo or something on their neck, some crime has to do with it. It's old fashioned thinking like anything.

Rosie (09:06.141)

Hmm.

Rosie (09:11.613)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's a more controversial one. I haven't met anyone in person who has this, but I have seen it online. What about people who tattoo their eyes? Have you seen that before?

Roula (09:25.423)

I have it but my friend told me she bought something online and went to get it and the guy that opened the door had his eye tattooed.

Rosie (09:35.325)

Yeah, so the whites are dark, yeah? Was it like, yeah. So it's quite confronting when it's not something you're used to seeing. So what are your thoughts on that?

Roula (09:41.4)

Yes

I think I watched sometimes long, very long time ago, something on Discovery Channel about tattoos, extreme tattoos. And this is, if I remember correctly, what I, what stayed with me. It's like extreme sports or people that like extreme pain. It's, it's, want to say it's a fetish, but it's not sexual. mean, even fetish, they're not always sexual or ending with sex.

Rosie (10:01.327)

Yeah true.

Rosie (10:07.656)

Mm-mm.

Go listen to Roula's Podcast, everybody. There's an episode about fetishes. Yeah, no, continue.

Roula (10:13.103)

Is that what we're talking about?

we will talk about fetish maybe next one yeah people like extreme pain and there are definitely people who like to shock who like to look in certain way and some of them make it their job like they can go on stage and i'm now so conscious i'm saying the word like so many times while i'm trying not to like like like the like that i do is in their eyes

Rosie (10:37.538)

Like, like, like, like, like. Like, like, like. I like it like that.

Roula (10:45.091)

Yeah, it's very peculiar.

Rosie (10:45.097)

Yes, my point is, is that still art? Because we were talking about tattoos being very personal and yes, it's a form of art and freedom of expression. Are we going to be hypocritical? Yeah, I actually agree. And I would not, at least not in this moment, tattoo my eyes. However, that does not mean

Roula (10:54.619)

I think it is. I think it is.

Rosie (11:10.95)

that other people can't.

Do you think it's their expression, right? Yeah, exactly. just, yep. Right.

Roula (11:19.855)

none of my business if they're kind and not hurting anyone. And I would like actually to have a conversation with someone like that just to understand why. Because, you know, when we see someone with a weird thing, we don't ask questions. Nice, respectful questions, not interrogative questions, I mean. If I meet someone with his eye tattooed, I will not look away. On the contrary, I will appreciate it and praise their courage.

Rosie (11:27.463)

Mmm.

Rosie (11:33.692)

Yes, we avoid it.

Rosie (11:38.065)

Right, right, right.

Rosie (11:47.208)

Mmm. Mmm!

Roula (11:50.309)

And from their answer, I can tell what kind of person they are. I don't have to be mean, I can be kind, and then they can tell me who they are.

Rosie (11:59.11)

Yeah. Yeah. So if you, okay, one more question. keep, I'm banging on, but I'm doing this because it's an, I want to focus, go back to this eyeball thing because I think it's an extreme example of a tattoo and extreme simply because we don't see it often. Right. Maybe in 10 years, it's not going to be extreme.

Roula (12:06.289)

Tattoos and fetish, I love these topics.

Roula (12:21.831)

And it hurts, definitely.

Rosie (12:23.035)

Well, I bet it does. Yeah, I imagine it would. And we've said we were talking about

how having a tattoo shouldn't negatively impact your chances of getting a job. So let's be even more extreme. If one of your kids were to get their eyes tattooed,

What would your concerns be? Would you have concerns?

Roula (12:58.991)

as you said, I don't want to be hypocrites. I want them to be able to support themselves financially and economically. And if they choose to have a tattoo in their eyes and they don't have a job that allows this or people that accept it, again, not the job, the environment, and they're not busy doing something artistic to earn their living.

Rosie (13:01.573)

Yeah.

Rosie (13:18.619)

Mm-hmm.

Roula (13:27.919)

My only concern will be how are they gonna grow financially or support themselves for the basic needs when they have a tattoo that make it people and society not accept to hire them. That would be my concern. Do I have power over it? No. And do I try to convince them not to do it? I can't. It's not my, you know, their adults.

Rosie (13:54.086)

Nyeh.

Mm, mm.

Roula (13:58.479)

I only express my worry and ask them what plan do they have a plan B? Do they have a plan?

Rosie (14:07.834)

Yeah, yeah. Just like any decision we make, have we thought through of the potential consequences or options, that sort of thing.

Roula (14:13.989)

Yeah, not not everything. Even my children, not everything they do. I like I agree or I wanted for them. But I'm not in a position always to like stand my ground. And do you have a tattoo? You have birds.

Rosie (14:19.202)

Yeah, yeah, of course not.

Rosie (14:28.709)

Yes, I have, yeah, this is true. I have two and they're both birds. I'd never made that connection. So I've got one on my forearm that says stay true.

It's a swallow. I just had a moment of, that a swallow or a sparrow? It's a swallow. and it says stay true. So my tattoos, yeah, I like, I want more. And for me, tattoos are personal and I want them to have a meaning or something behind them. And the stay true tattoo is just a reminder for me to stay true to who I am. Because whenever I try to please others and ignore my gut feeling of this doesn't feel right.

my God, I end up in the worst situations. Just whether or not it's something like being in a job I hate or in a relationship I shouldn't be in, whatever it is, when I'm not staying true, life isn't the best. When I stay true, things are better. So I like that one. The one on my foot was my first tattoo and it's a magpie in memory of dad. Cause magpies remind me of dad. have this, so Australian magpies are different to

Roula (15:42.435)

is a McBuy?

Rosie (15:43.749)

okay. So magpie, hang on a minute. Magpie, I think it's native to Australia. That's a very good question.

Rosie (15:56.994)

I got a check now. There's different types of magpie, right? Yes. So the Australian magpie, it's native to Australia. So let me show you. They're black and white.

Roula (15:59.249)

Could you see?

Roula (16:08.423)

It's a bird!

Rosie (16:10.011)

yeah, sorry. Yes. It's a bird. I didn't realize you'd. Yeah. Yeah. And, that's funny. I misinterpreted the question completely. Isn't that funny? Okay. I thought you just meant what kind of bird, but you're like, what the heck is a magpie? So let me play what magpies sound like. It's beautiful. I haven't checked this video, but let's see.

Roula (16:11.879)

Okay, so beautiful. I'm thinking of foods.

Rosie (16:38.286)

ad.

Don't you love ads? Okay.

Roula (16:44.433)

I buy them always.

Rosie (16:53.295)

Not there.

Rosie (17:01.103)

So they like sing and caw-taw.

Roula (17:02.023)

They're loud!

Hold on, hold on, there's a bird behind you on the wall. On your wall.

Rosie (17:09.241)

Yeah, God, this is just bizarre. Yes. I have birds everywhere and I didn't realize it. That's a bird that Dad made. And I've also got a painting of a magpie over there. And in front of me, actually, I've got a painting of a brolga, which is an Australian bird. What is going on? You're blowing my mind, Roula. What the f-

Roula (17:14.513)

Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (17:27.751)

my god, this episode is becoming so long.

Rosie (17:34.248)

yeah, they're my two tattoos, now the one on my foot. It is in memory of dad, so it's a magpie and it's got a banner saying dad. I actually don't like it. I don't like how the artist did the magpie, it hasn't aged well, it's all blown out. And I just, don't, well exactly. I think I will get something put on top of it, something beautiful.

Roula (17:52.923)

can always overdo it. You can change it.

Rosie (17:59.503)

But as my first tattoo, I didn't really know how to vet a tattoo artist and I just sort of trusted them even though there were a few red flags. And it's just like, so that was annoying. But yeah, they're my two tattoos and I would love more. My difficulty is just choosing what I want. I always go round in circles trying to pick what I want.

Roula (18:20.647)

It's process like wanting to have a tattoo, it's not like, I know what I want. No, it takes years sometimes to think and design and...

Rosie (18:28.324)

Well, I think so, but then there's people who walk into a tattoo shop and they'll pick something off the flash and there you go. Done.

Roula (18:35.909)

Well, some people are difficult with shopping, other needs time to buy skirts or pants. It's just like anything in life. Some people can make quick decisions and other don't on some stuff.

Rosie (18:40.834)

True? True? This is true?

Rosie (18:47.204)

So to answer the question, yes tattoos are art and yes it's self-expression. Was that the question? I can't remember. Was that the question? Yes.

Roula (18:49.457)

Hmm.

Roula (18:55.535)

Yes, yes. And I add to it, when people find it disgusting, it's okay. It's okay. It's just as long as they're not hurting you, seeing them on someone else, why would you care?

Rosie (19:10.914)

Yeah, get out of yourself.

Roula (19:13.243)

Get away with some of this expression. Thank you for listening to this long episode. It's about tattoos and we're passionate about it. Let us know what tattoos you have. Bye.

Rosie (19:23.758)

Bye!