63: "It Is What It Is" - Healthy Stoicism or Emotional Immaturity?

Roula (00:00)
Rosie, I missed you!

Rosie (00:00)
Matchy matchy! Aww!

Mwah! It's been too long!

Roula (00:07)
Yes, it's been way too long.

Rosie (00:08)
A week

is a really long time.

Roula (00:22)
Rosie, hello. I never start with hello, right? No. Okay, I have a question for you. okay, it's about a saying that some people have used.

Rosie (00:27)
You don't! No! How rude.

Hmm?

Roula (00:41)
Ironically, one person used it. I don't know if you heard of Conor McGregor. He's a UFC fighter, a very bad person. He uses this word. And since I heard it from him because he used it so many times at the time that he was famous and every time he lost, he just say it is what it is.

Rosie (00:46)
Yeah.

Roula (01:00)
And it's prompt me every time it's like, what, what do you mean with it is what it is?

And I want to ask you, what is this? What do you think about it? When someone would say, it is what it is.

Rosie (01:12)
Uhhh...

I find it so triggering, but I'm not sure I know why. It pisses me off. What do mean it is what it is? It's almost like you're not taking accountability. well, it is what it is. I cheated on my partner. It is what it is.

What? But then I think there are scenarios too. It might be where something bad happens to you. It's out of your control and people might say, well, it is what it is. And that pisses me off too. I it is what it is. Can you actually feel something? Like something shitty happened to you? Acknowledge you feel shit. Okay. It is what it is, but how are you feeling? It is what it is. Whatever. Move on. Really? No.

Roula (02:09)
Wow, okay, so now you gave me two aspects for it. The first trigger is not being accountable, and the second one is not feeling connected to their emotions. And what if it's accepting? It's their way of accepting what it is that didn't go their way.

Rosie (02:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the reality of your situation.

It could be, but you know what? I

think they're in fucking denial. That's what I think.

Roula (02:35)
Do you think they would use it? Is it used when things don't go our way? Yeah, right.

Rosie (02:42)
I guess? I guess so. Yeah, because it's-

Roula (02:45)
I don't think someone

would have did something incredibly good, satisfying, and then say it is what it is.

Rosie (02:55)
I probably know one person who I think might say that, but that is very unusual.

Roula (03:00)
because they're humble.

Rosie (03:03)
humble, but it's also just like, it. Let's have some feelings. It's this whole thing of what's it called? you know, where you're just very level-headed and you don't really have big emotions. What's it called?

Roula (03:24)
Psychopath? When you're a psychopath?

Rosie (03:25)
NAH!

Well, yeah, that's not the word I was thinking of, but yeah. Ryan Halliday is one of the people who, hang on. I've got the word on the tip of my tongue.

Roula (03:40)
Yeah, yeah, look,

I want to know the word now.

Rosie (03:43)
can't think of it. What is it?

Stoicism, stoicism.

Roula (03:48)
So you're,

wow.

Rosie (03:56)
Which is touted as this good thing and a state of being you should strive to work towards, but...

We're humans, we are very emotional beings. are driven by our emotions, not logic. We like to think we're very logical. In fact, we're not.

Roula (04:15)
So we're driven by our emotions and saying it is what it is is like oppressing this.

Rosie (04:18)
I think so.

You're cutting yourself off.

Yeah, it's like suppressing your feelings. But am I just...

Am I out of my mind? What do you think?

Roula (04:37)
You started with it's triggering and yes, it triggers my anger. The expression it is what it is. Because it seems to me like you have not accepted this. It's your accountability, your part. You have not learned from it. Like you're not looking at it in a way that. What was my part in this result?

Rosie (04:43)
Mmm.

Mm-mm.

Right, right.

Roula (05:07)
And

what were the circumstances? Because when someone would, if I went through something and someone said to me, it is what it is. It kills me because I'm not settling for this. I want to know how different can I do it? Give me the truth. Yes.

Rosie (05:22)
I agree.

Give me the truth!

think you and I are truth seekers. We seek the truth. It is what it is, is it feels very flippant and whatever. But if I try to be more empathetic and think about perhaps where the other person is coming from, maybe they're recognizing it's out of their control and that putting energy into getting caught up in negative emotions isn't going to serve them. Maybe that's where they're coming from.

Roula (05:59)
also a good point that could also be the other side for it

Rosie (05:59)
But, but I'm not convinced.

Yeah, perhaps that's where it's coming from, but they seem to skip the feeling part. I think you need the feeling part and the little tantrum before you get to, okay, I need to move forward now. I can't do anything about this. You got to go through the shit. Or do you think I'm just being self-sabotaging?

Roula (06:26)
No, no. I mean, how can we learn from whatever happened if we're not analyzing it, if we're not going through back in our mind? I'm not saying going into a negative thought circle or a toxic positive circle of thoughts. I just be responsible for what's going on and analyze it so that what is it that happened and why? It's

Rosie (06:33)
Hmm.

Mm-mm-mm.

Right, yeah, stuff that, yeah.

Roula (06:55)
When I heard it, for example, from Conor McGregor, I was like, this guy really have nothing to say. Saying it is what it is shows me that they have nothing to say. They have no self-reflection, no explanation for their mistakes.

Rosie (07:06)
Mmm.

So is it, are you

triggered because they're just stupid? Do you think, look at that person and go, you just have no brain cells. Is that what you're thinking?

Roula (07:21)
Yeah!

Not really, I don't think I had all this on my mind. It just, for me, it felt in a way it's not a satisfying answer. It's not satisfying.

Rosie (07:28)
Not really.

Yes, it's not satisfying.

You and I are really deep people. We want to dig into it. want the juicy bits. But some people get overwhelmed by that. They don't want that. But I think those people are missing out.

Roula (07:55)
In a way, probably those who use it as a mechanism of coping so that they don't go into negative circles, they don't dwell on what happened, they could be using it in their own benefit. And I hope they do reflect in person.

Rosie (07:59)
Mm.

Right, right.

Mmm.

Roula (08:15)
You know, it's confronting sometimes. Also, you don't want to be vulnerable in front of others. And then you say it is what it is. So you show your strong face. You show that you're not affected. It doesn't mean you don't want to move on and learn from it. We started quite harsh. And but that's the good thing. Talking about it, it's bringing me to. Could be they just want to save their face and they say it is what it is to protect themselves.

Rosie (08:22)
Yes, yes!

Mmmmm

protect themselves and perhaps, you know what's made me think of this next thought is I've had a friend having a hard time recently and I got pissed off because they started not sharing. They started going, yeah, I'm fine. And I knew they were not fine. I could see they were just spiraling. Things were getting bad, but they would not admit it. And eventually I just said, I said something. I can't remember what it was, but you know, a bit of tough love.

Roula (08:43)
and in private they are reflecting.

Rosie (09:12)
And they said, yeah, but if I, if I say I'm not okay, I'm a burden to others. said, well, okay, but you know what? You're being a burden now because they can see you're not okay and you're not letting them in.

Roula (09:27)
Absolutely. Also, not letting them in and not showing that she's doing something to get out of it.

Rosie (09:37)
Ooh. Ooh.

Roula (09:38)
She doesn't

owe it to them to show it, but when you love someone and you care about someone, you want to see them getting better.

Rosie (09:46)
Yes, because you care. And when you get locked out, it's almost, yes, it's a slap in the face. The other person, they don't mean this, but what it can feel like is, I don't trust you enough to let you in.

That's what it feels like. But the person who's not letting you in is trying to protect you. this nobody is helping anybody. It is what it is. Okay. Agreed. To a point. To a point. So it is what it is. Yeah, but also.

Roula (10:10)
That's why vulnerability is so important, becoming vulnerable. With people you trust, you mean?

Rosie (10:23)
Is there too much vulnerability? Like, okay, yes, be vulnerable, but let's get on with the day now. We can't sit here for 24 hours straight and, and you don't have these deep conversations.

I mean, we maybe could. I think I would be exhausted. Being vulnerable is exhausting.

Roula (10:40)
I see two sides for it. Being vulnerable is telling your truth and coming out of it. Being vulnerable is not complaining and in Dutch we say zure. It's not like be a negative person. Vulnerable is telling your truth and telling what you're gonna do with it.

Rosie (10:53)
no, yeah.

Ooh, yes. And again, it comes back to accountability Roula. This is so important to you and I. Tell the truth and what you're going to do about it. Accountability.

Roula (11:09)
Yeah. Yes. What worries

me, Rosie, with vulnerability, and maybe it is what it is, it's a way of protecting people. They protect themselves. When you are vulnerable about something, people who are not working on themselves, so you've been vulnerable towards someone you think you trust, someone you trust. And that person, if they're not also working on developing themselves,

Rosie (11:23)
Mm.

Mm-mm.

Roula (11:39)
They can use it against you.

they will use it against you. I will give you an example for I think every woman been through this example. Okay, before you have your period, you're vulnerable. You have a lot of emotions. You have a headache. You're feeling tired. You're snappy. You know, before menstruation, it's a time for women to feel really like going to hell and back actually.

Rosie (12:11)
We're bitches.

Roula (12:13)
Yes, I don't like to this word. Shut up.

Rosie (12:16)
Okay, alright, shut up, yep.

Roula (12:18)
we become vulnerable. And then on the good days, other would hold it against you like, you're to be snappy or you remember when you were like, we couldn't talk to you because, I'm not saying this is, this is how vulnerability should be. I'm saying sometimes we don't know how vulnerability is and we are vulnerable and then it's used against us.

Even if we say I'm vulnerable today, I'm feeling I'm going to explode because so much going on inside of me. And on the day that you're feeling good, some person would be, I'm not going to talk to you. You might be going through something. This is where vulnerability becomes dangerous in making you feel supported and in a safe environment.

Rosie (12:51)
Mm-mm-mm.

Roula (13:13)
And it is what it is. It's a way to protect people, the way to protect themselves, maybe.

Rosie (13:14)
That's a big talk. Well, true. This is true.

So maybe it's OK.

Roula (13:22)
For some people, if this is protecting them, yes, it could also be a question when someone in front of me would say it is what it is. I hope I will have the guts and the right word to ask if they're okay with it.

or if they think they could do something differently. It's a sensitive moment and the question at that time should also be sensitive or sensible. I don't know what the right word.

Rosie (13:52)
Hmm. I've never asked the question

when someone said that, but I have a feeling that answer would be the same. That's fine. It is what it is. Could be worse.

Roula (14:02)
That's it. We also have to accept it. Yeah, yeah.

Rosie (14:03)
At least you've planted the seed. Yeah, true.

It is what it is, Roula.

Roula (14:08)
Excellent! You planted the seeds. We don't have to have an answer for every question.

Rosie (14:15)
Yeah, that's hard for people like me.

Roula (14:16)
Probably the other person

will let it simmer, will work with it. They don't owe us an answer every time.

Rosie (14:20)
Yes, yes.

they don't owe us an answer. So you and I are getting triggered by it is what it is. Maybe we're making it about ourselves. They don't owe us an answer.

Roula (14:34)
Well, I'm glad we had this conversation because now when

someone says it is what it is, I think twice before I get annoyed. But not from Conor McGregor and this toxic man, no, or toxic woman.

Rosie (14:41)
Yeah!

I'll try my best not to. Yes, I take it you don't

like him. Well, yes, this is true. In that case, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying it is what it is because to me, if I say it is what it is to a situation like that, I'm saying it's okay.

Or am I misinterpreting? My head Roula this question has just got me in a head spin. What have you done?

Roula (15:11)
probably two, yeah, so then this is the end, it's the answer

Rosie (15:14)
It is what it is.

That's right. It is what it is, Roula Let us know. What are your thoughts? Is it what it is?

Roula (15:23)
Yes.

Share with us, please. How does this expression make you feel? Thank you for listening. Bye.