74: Who Should Pay on the First Date?

Roula (00:04)
Are you gonna keep it up short and shaved? ⁓ yeah, good good.

Rosie (00:06)
Probably. ⁓ For now,

yeah, Yeah, until I get sick of it.

Roula (00:14)
Yeah, then you give it time. My skin is peeling because I had a peeling two days ago. Yes. So every day a little will peel. Yes, we should do this from time to time.

Rosie (00:19)
Your chemical pill, yeah.

You're like a snake shitting its skin.

Roula (00:34)
Rosie, Rosie, Rosie, let's go.

Rosie (00:38)
Alright, let's go!

Roula (00:51)
I have question for you. Of course I have a question for you, for who else? Who should pay on the first date?

Rosie (00:55)
always.

off.

I think you should split it 50-50 or you pay for your fa- well because I don't want to pay for someone else. I mean, I don't want them to expect to pay for me. If I choose, then that's okay. But they better acknowledge that if they don't say anything.

Roula (01:05)
Why?

Rosie (01:25)
I'm going to be pissed because that tells me they just expected me to pay.

Roula (01:30)
So what differs this from being out with friends for a and or a first date? What makes it different? What makes it a date?

Rosie (01:38)
I get my friends to pay.

It's the same, I don't know. But I would expect the same from a friend as I did on a date. I don't say to my friends come out for dinner and pay for them. Just as if I said, hey, do you wanna go out on a date? Well, let's go for a sexy dinner. This is hard actually, because what if it's an expensive date? You know what I mean?

Roula (02:01)
I see you thinking, I see you rethinking your words.

Rosie (02:08)
I think it just has to be set up front. If the other person is paying, they can say. Otherwise, I think it should be assumed that you're paying for yourself.

Roula (02:17)
what if they say, I'm gonna take you, let me take you for dinner and then they don't pay. This also can happen.

Rosie (02:23)
Oh.

Oh. I would be very pissed off, actually. If you say something, follow through.

Roula (02:28)
the moment?

In the restaurant you would be pissed off? How would you react?

Rosie (02:34)
Well, I'd probably be silent about it, but

yeah, I'd be silent and let it stew. I don't know if I'd have the guts to say something, because you've just met this person. I don't know. That would be a deal breaker almost.

Roula (02:51)
So this kind of person won't get a second date.

Rosie (02:55)
Well, unless they went, ⁓ shit, I forgot I said I was gonna pay or something. But really, perhaps it would be on me to bring it up, go, ⁓ you said you were gonna pay. That would be so awkward. Can you imagine how awkward that would be? And what if they said, no, I didn't?

Roula (03:08)
so awkward yeah yeah

Rosie (03:15)
I didn't say that.

Roula (03:15)
Yeah,

that would be the end of it. Because you know they're unreliable.

Rosie (03:21)
Right. But what's your point of view? Some things you're very traditional on like etiquette and other things. Most things I think you're very modern and progressive on. So where do you, where do you stand on this?

Roula (03:36)
in my opinion, the person on the first date, the one who's inviting the other should pay. It's like a token of wanting to be with that person, going out of their way to have a date with that person. And it depends. If the date is just dinner, then this person who invited me

Rosie (03:38)
Yes!

Okay. Okay.

Mmm.

Roula (04:05)
Or if I invited someone else, I would be paying pay for the first date. If it involves something else, like have a walk and eat a snack, a street food, because the date was so beautiful. It's been hours since we had lunch and that my date paid for the lunch. Then I would offer to pay the snacks. And from now, from there, it can be a game who likes the other more. Yeah. Yeah. Bit of flirting. Like, ⁓ come, I want to show you this.

Rosie (04:29)
A game? Bit of flirting.

Roula (04:35)
street food, it's so yummy, let me buy you something, I want you to try it. So it's part of flirting, making the date happy. I don't know, that's what I think.

Rosie (04:41)
Okay.

So did your husband

pay on the first date?

We don't

Roula (04:50)
I can't remember.

It

was, was it indeed? We went out for drinks and it was mutual, but I can't remember. I think we went to two places and each one of us paid the one, the first and the other one paid the other, the second. ⁓ I have been, not have been, I came across this couple, they have a podcast and they are so like contrast. She is...

Rosie (05:05)
Okay.

Roula (05:22)
progressive and she wants women to have the same ⁓ the same things as men, equality and be responsible financially, etc. And her husband, he's a traditional guy. He wants her to relax, stay at home, look after the kids and he want to be the bread owner, earner and everything. And he talked about that men should pay. And now I'm talking in

Rosie (05:41)
How does that even work?

Roula (05:50)
stereotype gender, man, male, female with something not for you because you are girl, girl, gender. And that's a problem because if a guy thinks that they should pay, it's a problem for you with your girlfriends. Like, who's going to pay? You have to figure it out in your gender world. ⁓ And I felt I don't agree with him when I was hearing them that man should pay for everything because ⁓

Rosie (05:51)
Right, right.

Who's gonna pay?

Roula (06:18)
this take away my authority if he's going to pay for everything. Not, yeah.

Rosie (06:21)
It's a power play. There's immediately

an imbalance in power and I think that's always very dangerous. So I'm with you.

Roula (06:28)
And I think as much as a man would like to pay because he wants to show how much he cares and take responsibility for that woman, women also want to offer this.

So I don't know, I don't know. I mean, if it's a guy, I really wonder what their opinion is, the man, if they should pay. And for girls, I don't know. Yes. Yes.

Rosie (06:49)
Okay, here's the question. Let's change it a bit. You've got three kids. You've got three

kids. Have you ever sat any of them down and had this talk? Or like if you were to sit down with one of them, say your youngest maybe, because I'm assuming he hasn't been on a date yet, but I never know. I don't know.

Roula (06:59)
No.

⁓ he's been in love so many times

Rosie (07:12)
What would you, how would you talk him through this? Because when you've never been on a date, first person you're asking out, you're probably really nervous. What would your advice be?

Roula (07:20)
I tell him that

if you ask that person on a date, you should pay. That's my take.

Rosie (07:29)
And what if he said, well, I shouldn't have to pay. What would you say?

Roula (07:34)
then I have to really figure out for myself what the approach would be if they have to agree who's paying. Of course, it's nice to have also these open conversations about, OK, listen, I want to go on a date, but you have to find a restaurant that we both can afford. And that's the hint.

Rosie (07:38)
Hahaha!

It's not romantic, but it's practical. We are too shy to talk about money. my gosh, we need an episode talking about money. I'm quite passionate about

Roula (07:54)
Though we're too shy to talk about it.

Your point,

I like it. What did you say? We're too shy to talk about it because you want to show the best part of us for that new date.

Rosie (08:06)
We are.

We're too

proud or even sometimes there's shame around it. Like how much do they earn? How much do I earn? They're going to think I'm poor or up myself or I don't want them to know how much I earn because maybe they earn more than me or maybe I earn more than them. And we're just getting ahead and it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Roula (08:28)
And that's so true.

How many people spend more money than they can afford to keep the face that I can pay for these dates, I can pay for these dinners and the other person, when someone has money, they don't notice sometimes the struggle of the other. So when they go to a fancy restaurant and they order and they pay, the one who's comfortable with the money will not think, this is maybe too much for the other person.

Rosie (08:42)
Mm-mm.

Mmm. Right.

They don't even notice. ⁓

Roula (08:57)
and the other person is so proud, won't say anything.

Rosie (08:57)
Okay. So is it etiquette Roula Is this a non-negotiable etiquette for the person who asks the other one out to pay? Or is it time to flip the script a bit and encourage people to have a conversation? How are we doing this? I want to shout you to dinner. Would you be comfortable with that? My treat. Or how would you feel about?

Roula (09:19)
to think that the first, the one inviting the first date should pay.

Rosie (09:26)
etiquette, that's it. It would annoy you if the other person didn't.

Roula (09:31)
Unless, I mean, the other person

should not be offended because you know there are people who don't want anyone to pay for them.

Rosie (09:37)
Well, true. Too proud.

Roula (09:39)
too proud to... I mean, this is also something, I'm taking it from my point of view. But what if that person gets offended if someone's paying for them?

Yeah.

Rosie (09:51)
my God. Well, okay.

This is just interesting. Yeah, please help. Please help. This is too hard. I don't like etiquette, but also it makes me feel uncomfortable having a discussion about who's paying before you even get to the date. However, I think money and sex are probably the two biggest things in relationships or in a marriage that cause the most conflict.

Roula (09:56)
Right, we need our listeners to help us because we don't have all the answers.

Last question for you, Rosie. How would you feel when your date have paid for the dinner, the drinks, for everything, for that event? How would that make you feel?

Rosie (10:20)
Mm.

feel pretty special.

I'd also maybe feel a little bit uncomfortable, but yeah, I'd feel special. Like, hey, they really like me.

Roula (10:34)
bizarre

Yeah, I'm a bit uncomfortable. Oh, okay. I guess we don't know. We don't have an answer. Each one has their own feelings and desires and little thing that offend us.

Rosie (10:50)
I say assume 50-50

unless it's said otherwise. Do not assume the other person's paying. That's my final say. And Roula says the... Right.

Roula (10:58)
I say pay for the first date and offer

the second or a snack or whatever. ⁓ listeners, bye.

Rosie (11:03)
All right then, let us know your thoughts. Bye!