80: Does What We Wear Define Us?

Rosie (00:00)
This is a salami stick, not a carrot Roula

Roula (00:04)
you're eating a salami stick you don't eat healthy stuff

Rosie, do you think that clothes make the person? Clothes make the person.

Rosie (00:29)
Like I even repeated that as if I didn't understand.

Roula (00:33)
Because if a close is plural, how do you pronounce it? Do you think that close make the person?

Rosie (00:37)
Clothes, just like open, close, clothes. yeah, it

should be clothes, but I say clothes. clothes, clothes, clothes, make the person. You really got me thinking about pronunciation now. Do clothes make the person?

Roula (00:45)
Yeah, because I'm like clothes makes the person or clothes make the person.

you

Rosie (01:06)
That's a difficult one because this is something I struggle with personally. think clothes or fashion are a great, now I can't say my words, a great, a great way. They're a great, fuck, a great way to express yourself. However, I have no confidence in shopping for myself or in finding a style that suits me. What are you doing? You're like lip syncing something in the background.

Roula (01:16)
Go wait.

sing and express yourself.

Rosie (01:38)
You're in like a weird mood today.

Roula (01:41)
I know

Please continue. Can you repeat? No.

Rosie (01:45)
Are you even listening? You're

not even listening! I'm spilling out my heart and soul! ⁓ Yeah, what was I saying? Clothes are a- clothes are a great way of expressing yourself. ⁓ shit!

⁓ What is wrong with us today? You're ruffling. Clothes up. Clothes up. A great way to express yourself. Stop laughing. However, I struggle with this because I don't enjoy shopping. I don't actually know what suits my body shape or my personality. I might look at something go, that's so cool. And then put it on and it just...

Roula (02:09)
Stop laughing now. Stop saying it. Close it.

Rosie (02:33)
is uncomfortable or doesn't look how I thought. And you know me, I just chuck on like a t-shirt and shorts that is like my wardrobe. But does that reflect who I am? I don't know, maybe. I guess it shows that I place more importance on other things. But also it's an area I'm not competent in. So I just kind of push it to the side and do other stuff. But if I had you Rula or like a personal stylist, I would be the coolest.

freaking person ever. I would have such cool style. But I do not.

Roula (03:09)
Would you

like to have a cool style?

Rosie (03:12)
Yeah, but I want it to be comfortable.

Roula (03:16)
You said something remarkable and just quickly on it. My tears. my goodness. Okay, so you said that you don't pay attention to clothes. It's not important for you. no, okay, you care about other things too. And when a person first see you and they don't know you yet. What kind of judging?

Rosie (03:29)
No, not that it's not important. It's... yeah.

Mm.

Or they judge me big time.

They're probably just going, oh, just a bit average. Like, oh, does she have any self care? there is judgment and probably same for me. I'll see someone and make a judgment based on their appearance. It's a natural thing to do. Do I like that that's something we do? Not really. Not really. Because sometimes I'll look at people who just like are so beautiful and

done up and they got beautiful makeup and beautiful clothes and I'm just so intimidated. I'm not talking to them. Or they must be a bitch.

Roula (04:17)
Wow.

Rosie (04:18)
I'd probably see you on the street, Roula and not talk to you. I'd be like,

Like if I didn't know you.

Roula (04:23)
That's

quite, I have not thought of this that you think you use the word beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, like five times describing someone and yet you have not learned anything from them. You got intimidated.

Rosie (04:39)
I do, I do get intimidated. And I think part of this, this is going to turn into one of these episodes where we go all over the place, but I guess that's the norm for us. So let's just, we're doing it. Don't tell me don't. This is related. All right. So shut up and listen. Part of this, this is turning into a therapy session for me is I grew up being called a tomboy. I wasn't into wearing dresses and that sort of stuff.

Roula (04:50)
Don't don't. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ okay. Yeah.

Rosie (05:07)
Like I did occasionally, but it wasn't what I was comfortable in or felt like myself in. So I was called a tomboy. And now I'm older. I don't wear makeup because, well, I don't know really know how to apply it properly. However, I also just hate the feeling of it on my face. So that's something I'm self-conscious about too. Yes. Right. Yes.

Roula (05:25)
Have you ever wore makeup? Let me correct you here. You

do not feel makeup on your face. You don't feel it. It's not like if you put mascara, your lashes are so heavy that you barely can open your eyes. No, you don't feel it.

Rosie (05:32)
What?

No, I feel it. No, fuck off. No,

no, but that's not true. I have worn makeup. Like think me in 18, 19, 20, early 20s. Yes, because I felt like that's what you have to do as a woman. And yeah, I'd feel pretty, but I'd also feel gross. I'm someone with oily skin and I sweat and I'm someone who touches my face. Do I like the way I look with it? Fuck yeah, I look sexy.

Roula (05:51)
Mmm. Mmm.

Maybe you

need to start working on your manners. Stop touching your face.

Rosie (06:04)
⁓ fucking etiquette seriously so but that's part of it because it's appearance so there's that that's something I'm self-conscious about because most women what the fuck was that sound your thermos

Roula (06:07)
You're bringing all the germs to your skin.

Okay, okay, let's get back. Let's go. Uh-uh, because.

Rosie (06:29)
Poor listeners, are you peeing on air? Sound like a little pee. It is chaotic. What the fuck, man? So yes, clothing, appearance, appearance in general, I would say is something I am self-conscious of because I don't fit the norm. So, do clothes make a person? No. However, it kind of feels like they do.

Roula (06:32)
Ugh, this episode is chaotic.

Mmm.

Rosie (06:55)
And I think actually they do play an important role because first impressions are really important.

Roula (07:02)
Clothes make the first impression, I think. And you know, there is this idea that if we are looking nice and wearing nice clothes, it's that they're not comfortable. And I don't know where this is coming from.

Rosie (07:08)
I so too.

Well, see, I've got that point of view, but it's because I don't know how to fucking dress. Because like you've just said it, it doesn't have to be uncomfortable, but every single fricking thing that people go, my God, you look amazing. I'm thinking this is so uncomfortable. I can't wait to take it off.

Roula (07:23)
Exactly.

Yes, because you're wearing something you don't like does not represent who you are to because of an occasion, because of an expectation. The idea you can even if you were a tomboy, I mean, look around you. The boys look gorgeous wearing comfortable things. All right. Not everyone is stylish, et cetera. But I'm saying looking neat and tidy and clean and having a Nyon t-shirt.

Rosie (07:38)
Mm-mm.

Mmm! Mmm!

Mmm!

Mm.

Roula (08:02)
the right like taken care of. It doesn't have to be outrageous clothes or whatever we see on Instagram, this intimidating reel after reel about style and clothes, etc. What I think is that the first impression of a person is important because when I see you, I don't know what you're like. I don't know what you think. So when I see someone not taking care of

Rosie (08:24)
I'm so curious, I have a follow-up question. Yeah, so I just said.

Roula (08:32)
I feel that that's not my kind of person. And another person who looks at me, you think that's not my kind of person.

Rosie (08:33)
Right, now stop!

Okay, can I cut in?

Roula (08:41)
What am I saying? Yeah.

Rosie (08:42)
No, I agree, but I need to cut in. was having trouble holding myself back and you just kept talking. We are not like meshing today, but that's okay. This is a topic we kind of disagree on, isn't it? This is great. Well, we don't disagree, but we're coming from different experiences. So I said earlier, if I didn't know you when I saw you on the street, I probably wouldn't approach you. So what if you saw me?

Roula (09:10)
it approach you

Rosie (09:11)
Exactly. So we would have missed out on an amazing friendship and this podcast, well, I think it might be. We would never have spoken. We met because we messaged each other in a forum. We didn't see each other. We just resonated with what the post said and then we connected. So it wasn't looking at each other.

Roula (09:17)
Is this true? ⁓

Rosie (09:39)
Catching eyes, walking across the room.

Roula (09:42)
I was like, wow, I want her to be my friend.

Rosie (09:48)
Nice clippers, sir.

Roula (09:48)
you

find it inspiring to look at people who are looking after themselves and I find it inspiring. It gives me energy. It looks positive. No matter what's going on. I give you me as an example, and I don't know if this is very self-absorbed or whatever. No matter what's going on in my life. And, you know, I'm going in these days through a really shitty period.

Rosie (09:56)
Mm.

Mmm.

Probably.

Mm-mm.

Roula (10:21)
I will not not look after myself even if I'm feeling very badly and mentally I'm not doing well some things are happening and I still take care of myself because this gives me the positive energy to keep going not going back into I don't feel like looking after myself today no I'm gonna do what I do because this gives me energy

Rosie (10:41)
Ooh.

it gives you energy. Whereas for me, I find it drains me. I find it exhausting. So exhausting. That's interesting. Because when you were talking saying it doesn't matter, you know, even when you're having a shitty time, like you're having a tough time right now, you, got on air and you started doing your lipstick. It matters. And every time we come on to record, you fix your hair first, and you put your headphones on, you make sure everything's looking right and the lighting.

Roula (11:00)
Such a contrast.

Rosie (11:18)
And I'm just here like, yep, whatever, let's go. So it's very, I just, it's such an interesting topic and the fact that it gives you energy. It's almost, does it give you a confidence boost as well?

Or is it more a mental state? Okay. Was it taught to you?

Roula (11:35)
thought of that. I've been like this on my life.

No, no, no, no, Yes, I grew up in a culture where everyone looked well taken care of, even though it was wartime. For myself, personally, I wanted to look different. And looking different was by copying the fashion that I see on music video clips on MTV and Top of the Pop. This is how it developed.

Rosie (11:51)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Yeah. ⁓

Roula (12:13)
And then I started dressing up different than the others just because it defined my personality because I want to be different. And in this we are similar. I want to be different in how I'm dressing. Not very different, maybe in the past, now not anymore. And you, you are different and that's why you don't want to dress. You just want to wear what you like.

Rosie (12:20)
Mmm.

Mmm.

⁓ but I,

maybe? I honestly think for me, it is a confidence thing. have, I, for you, it makes you feel positive and you're ready to face the day when you dress up and look after yourself. For me, it's anxiety inducing.

So I think my way of expressing my differences with my thoughts and how I show up in the world rather than, I mean, I guess my appearance is a bit different too, isn't it? I've got a shaved head and I wear quite boyish, loose clothes, but that, the clothing I wear is less intentional than I guess how I.

What's the word? I don't have the word. Do know what I mean? How I show up and interact with the world and with people. Close to me I'm like, ugh.

Roula (13:22)
I feel that

there is no right or wrong and clothes as a conclusion of this, I don't think clothes make the person. No. They make the first impression, but not the person because the more we get to know the person, I mean, look at us. I like you. Even if I think your clothes are not stylish enough that you can do better. No.

Rosie (13:33)
Hmm.

Yeah. Right.

We're like chalk and cheese. You couldn't maintain eye contact when you said that.

So when you come visit, we can go shopping. There you go. Yes. You have to be nice to me though. ⁓ Yes. Then we can do a photo shoot.

Roula (13:53)
I'll take you shopping. I already have your ideas. I will make a mood board for you.

We will keep the comfort. You will keep your style. It's going to be boyish, but it's going to be a little bit spicy, like something that makes you feel it. ⁓ Yeah, I like that.

Rosie (14:12)
Oh yes, little bit spicy. I wanna feel sexy,

but in my way. Not in the way that media portrays like showing my cleavage or you know, whatever, whatever. Ew, that's not me. I shouldn't say ew, some people like to do that. Not me.

Roula (14:19)
Yeah, and it's possible.

women wearing boyish stuff super sexy more sexy than women wearing women's stuff might be non-judgmental no it's my preference what attracts me when i find attractive everyone finds something different attractive

Rosie (14:33)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Probably not, Right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

This is true. Fascinating. What do you think of clothes, everybody? Do they make a person? Did this episode even make sense? We spent the first few minutes just laughing. I don't know where this went, but it was an interesting conversation.

Roula (14:51)
Hmm.

If it didn't make sense,

you got to know us a little bit better and I hope you get encouraged to say more and more.

Rosie (15:09)
I guess.

maybe just check yourself because Roula and I would never have become friends if we judged each other walking down the street. So yes, you're going to judge people, but just, I don't know, give them a chance. It might be your new best friend. might be your new co-host of an amazing podcast.

Roula (15:30)
All right, bye.