Does Etiquette Matter?

Rosie: [00:00:00] What are you drinking there, Roula? Is that a gin and tonic? 

Roula: It's 8. 30 in the morning, yes. Why not? I know we said this is a judgment free zone, but are you okay? Oh, I'm glad you asked, because we really have to be careful. Judgment free, but if you see me doing something that harms me, I want you to tell me.

Roula: No, it's not okay to drink alcohol at 8. 30 in the morning. It means something really going on badly. And you can tell me that. 

Rosie: All right. I feel the same. Please do the same for me, and I think that's I want to surround myself with people like that. Why not? 

Roula: Yeah. 

Rosie: But let's have a chat about something a bit less serious.

Rosie: It could be serious, but I don't think it's very serious. I can't wait because I really think we're going to disagree on this.

Roula: Welcome to the Rosie And Roula Show. Marhaba. G'day.

Rosie: Roula. Does [00:01:00] etiquette matter? Does it have a place in today's society? 

Roula: Is your purpose today to argue with me? Start a fight. I'm bored. Yes, I love etiquette. I love it. I'm not obsessed with it, but I love it. All right. I think we need to start with what is etiquette?

Roula: You tell me because you're asking me the question. So what 

Rosie: etiquette makes me think of is rules. Just rules that people say you have to do it this way. And that's it. So I have this visceral reaction of fuck that I'm not doing what you tell me to do. Etiquette to me is very negative and old fashioned, but I think, yeah, rght.

Rosie: And so I really want to hear your take on it because you love etiquette. 

Roula: Yeah. Etiquette is being considerate to others, to the world around you. Okay. Well, [00:02:00]I care about 

Rosie: that. That's important to me. Okay. 

Roula: Maybe calling it etiquette is making people like run away from it because, oh, only posh people and the ones who just want to lift their finger when they're drinking tea.

Roula: Oh, I love to lift my finger when I'm drinking tea. I do it too! But etiquette is being considerate. Can you imagine if you just feel, okay, so you want to pee and you go and just pee on the street. Not being on the street is also an etiquette. Not sneezing in someone's face is etiquette. So etiquette doesn't have to be this fancy and posh and, and I don't know how it's represented.

Roula: Every little thing we do considering others is etiquette. 

Rosie: Okay. 

Roula: Well, with your definition, I 

Rosie: love etiquette. It just sounds like showing up as a decent human being. You know, a sim, a silly little example that now makes me think of etiquette taking on your [00:03:00] definition is I've been doing a lot of driving in my van, really long drives.

Rosie: And I'm not sure if it's the same in the Netherlands cause it's a much smaller country, but in Australia, once you get out of the big cities and you're in more remote areas, if you see someone else on the road, You wave. It's like this unspoken etiquette, like, oh, just wave and they wave back. And if someone doesn't wave back to me, I get really pissed off to pull myself up.

Rosie: I'm like, well, they don't owe me anything. But I think that's an example of etiquette. Just acknowledging someone as you drive a simple little wave. 

Roula: I have a similar story. It appeared that my etiquette was very wrong. We were on the motorcycle and I'm a passenger behind my husband. So when you meet when you're on the road and you see another motorcyclist, you wave.

Roula: I didn't know that only the driver should wave. I [00:04:00] also waved. And my husband was like, Roula, you don't wave. I'm driving. I wave. Here's 

Rosie: my question though. That, that to me is, well, that's okay. Like you were waving. I love that. Just because not everybody else does it, do you think it's okay? Like, are you going to wave next time now you know what the rule is?

Roula: No, I'm not going to wave next time. Because I'm not in that position to waive. I'm a passenger. I'm not, um, and not entitled. What's the other word, word, like more legal?

Roula: Anyway, it's not for me. And it is part of the etiquette. Because imagine I ask you a question, and the person next to you answers it. True. 

Rosie: However. I think that's rude because you're not allowing someone else to have a voice. The motorbike example, [00:05:00] you're just showing up as a friendly person. You're not hurting anyone.

Rosie: And to me, I love that you're doing something different. Nobody else is doing it. It's hilarious. You're making everybody laugh. I don't know if they laughed. 

Roula: Um, what you said, like I, it's allowing everyone to have a voice. Sometimes we must like, we should respect that. It's not our turn. It's not my turn to have a voice.

Roula: I can have my voice in something else, or a different situation. But at this moment, it's not my voice. Why do we always get so philosophical on this? Oh, what's supposed to be light? You know, otherwise, we would be raiding wars and and just being horrible to each other's if we if etiquette is not part of our life.

Roula: And of course there are there are etiquettes that that I can't, goodness, you really took me by surprise with this question. Usually I'm ready with all these etiquette stuff. Um, [00:06:00] Are there any etiquettes that you think are wrong? There must be. 

Rosie: There 

Roula: must be etiquettes are wrong. 

Rosie: Like how about, here's one.

Rosie: I don't know if this culturally is the same. 

Roula: I like it when you bring it to culture, yes. Yes. 

Rosie: Yeah, I'd love to hear your take. Culturally, and I guess it's shifting a bit, but let's not go there. The man of the family sits at the head of the table and they get the food first. No, no one else can touch it.

Rosie: This is 

Roula: not etiquette. This is patriarchy.

Roula: Yes, so true! And this brings us really to a point. What is, we have to be vigilant and open minded to make a difference between etiquette and between rules set by societal expectations. [00:07:00]

Rosie: So who, who creates etiquette then? Because to me that etiquette is society's expectations. 

Roula: Goodness, you're right. I like to think of it as, yeah, it's an, yeah, it's like an inclusive societal expectation.

Roula: We're all equal on it. 

Rosie: Yeah. I always say I hate society's expectations and stuff the status quo, but this is making me question that because sometimes society's expectations aren't so bad. 

Roula: Yeah. And it's okay. It's okay. we, we, they're, they're also there for a reason. And as long as we're not hurting anyone, be respectful, and putting our boundaries, understanding who we are, it's fine.

Roula: I do want to bring you to something fun about etiquette. So we don't go even like deeper and dry. Yeah. [00:08:00] There are a few etiquettes that I find them not good to see. I don't like to see them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So when people are drinking a glass of wine, they hold the glass from up. Okay, so the hands underneath the glass.

Roula: Yes, yes, yes. If it's a cold wine, they're making it warm with their hand. Don't put your hand under it. And if it's a regular red wine, it's just why are you holding it? Like it just, it doesn't like you. Hold it and you drink like that. How do you drink like that? Anyway, it has it has what do you call it in English?

Roula: This is where we need to hold it. Not the glass because your fingers are fat and they're like everywhere on the glass. My lipstick is on all the glasses. Even [00:09:00] sometimes when you take them out of the dishwasher. Oh yeah, I'm embarrassed to say that. This 

Rosie: example though, surely the etiquette is holding it by the stem and what people are doing it by cupping their hand underneath.

Rosie: People need to watch this on YouTube to know what the heck we're talking about. 

Roula: And bringing flowers to people. I want to mention this. If you're invited somewhere, please do not bring flowers without a vase. You know, when people are having an event, the last thing on their mind is to please you by taking this bouquet of flowers, cut them, find a vase, put them in it, and neglect all the other people at the party or the event because you brought flowers.

Roula: Do you know how many people come in with flowers? Bring them ready in a vase. Or even send them a night before in a vase already.

Rosie: You expect [00:10:00] me to buy a vase as well as flowers? Yes. Bringing them to your house? Yes. Fuck that. You're never getting flowers from me. 

Roula: Better. Because you know, I don't want you to show up at my door holding flowers and I'm like, fuck, where?

Roula: Like, I don't have a vase anymore. And believe me, I had this that some people were even waiting for me to look after the flowers they brought. No. No, don't do this, don't do this. The other thing is bring in wine. Okay, hold on people. These are my etiquette annoyance. We're gonna be here a long time.

Rosie: Everyone assumed that I drink wine. 

Roula: I had so many bottles of wines and like different brands, and I don't even drink wine. 

Rosie: Oh my god. 

Roula: And I started bringing them back randomly and said to people, maybe you got me this bottle, but I'm giving it back to [00:11:00] you because I don't drink wine. 

Rosie: You don't think that's rude?

Rosie: What I want. 

Roula: Yeah. So the bottom line here, what I want one is one etiquette that I love to use is to ask people what they like to have to receive. Say, because sometimes we don't because we like to surprise people. Most of people don't like surprises when they smile and laugh and show you how grateful they are.

Roula: They're faking it because you cannot possibly know what I love. So So don't do surprises. One of the etiquette I cherish is to ask the other person what they like to have, what they like to drink, what's their preferences, and then get them what they want. Gets me what I want. You know what I want? Yeah, right.

Rosie: I'm kind of on the same page there, because otherwise you end up with useless shit. I'd rather not have, I'd rather have nothing at all. But what gets my goat? [00:12:00] I'll ask someone what they want. And they go, I don't mind whatever you're having, like, it doesn't matter. But really? 

Roula: That's a good one. You're too scared?

Roula: Yes. It's the, you know, there is also some, some people who feel like embarrassed or they don't want to bother you by telling you what they want. Other really don't know what they want. And. maybe help this person. Okay. So do you like this wine or, or I don't know, maybe they don't want you to bring anything.

Roula: We have also to normalize not to bring in something.

Rosie: Yeah. I don't expect people to bring anything. And if I do, I say, can you bring blah, you know, can you bring a plate of food? Oh, I forgot to buy chips or, you know, exactly. 

Roula: Yeah. Are we still in the etiquette topic? I think 

Rosie: it's related, but like the lesson I have learned from this episode, whether or not [00:13:00] we're on the same topic, is when I come visit you in the Netherlands, if I buy you flowers, I better fucking bring them in a vase.

Rosie: You better do. Otherwise you'll stay in Australia, please. 

Roula: It's not worth visiting me.

Rosie: Full on. All right, guys, send us in the etiquettes that really piss you off. I want to hear them. I need a laugh. I want to hear also the etiquettes that you 

Roula: love. Not only the one that she, okay. Rosie sent to her the ones that piss you off. Send for me the one you love. 

Rosie: Yeah, right. Whatever. 

Roula: Thank you for listening.

Roula: See you next time. Rosie, you can say bye. I did. I didn't hear it.