17: Stop Apologsing! Do This Instead.

[00:00:00] Rosie: You're going to ask me something difficult, aren't you? Your face is just telling a story. Fuck. I am tempted to hang up right now, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's go. 

[00:00:08] Roula: Welcome to the Rosie and show Marhaba. Good day. 

[00:00:19] How can we stop apologizing?

[00:00:27] Rosie: I'm actually getting quite good at this, can I say? Tell me more. You just need to stop giving a fuck. Stop placing more importance on other people's opinions than on your opinions and beliefs. For example, you were late today, but you didn't say, Oh, Rosie, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah. It's just, let's get on with it.

[00:00:51] Or I was I was late last week, like by hours, but it wasn't, it was just a conversation. Thank you. Let's go. Sometimes you should say sorry, but why is it we default to saying sorry? So my tip is stopped giving a fuck. Am I right or wrong? 

[00:01:10] Roula: I wouldn't bring it this way.

[00:01:15] Rosie: Am I too blind? 

[00:01:17] Roula: Uh, yes, you are blind. And, uh, sometimes I think I do have to apologize for the listener to your language. Oh! In this case. Oh! Gosh! Wow. You put it, you put it, look, it's true. Apologizing, I meet people, um, apologizing for everything. 

[00:01:40] Rosie: Mm. Mm. 

[00:01:41] Roula: For not putting the glass where it should be, for being late, for having hair on my face, which does not concern them, for example.

[00:01:52] there are people apologizing a lot and it's not kindness. I don't find it kind when people keep apologizing. I find it annoying. There are so many powerful words and more connective words than apologizing. And saying sorry doesn't mean anything. Sorry for what? 

[00:02:12] Rosie: The power of it has really gone. It's really gone because we say it for everything.

[00:02:18] Over here, I'll be walking in the, in the grocery store down the aisle. And if, if I walk on the same side as someone else and we have to move, Both of us go, Oh, sorry. It's like, what are you sorry for? You didn't do it on purpose. What are you, why are you sorry? It's just, get out of the way. It's all good. I don't say sorry.

[00:02:38] You know what I do? I play a game like I won't left and right. I do that, but it's by accident because I'm just really awkward. 

[00:02:46] Roula: No, I do it on purpose. Of course you do. I have to say I trained myself not to say sorry anymore because I hear people saying sorry so much. And, uh, is this, I just put it, I just put my phone on silent, on focus, and it made 

[00:03:04] Rosie: a sound.

[00:03:05] Roula: It made a sound. 

[00:03:07] Rosie: Unacceptable. Are you a podcast host or not? Yeah, right. This is my follow up question. Does that mean we should never apologize? 

[00:03:14] Roula: No, look, if we use powerful words and sincere words, that apologizing is not necessary. Let me give you an example and I'll give you a heavy example. It's so important that it might make sense to you.

[00:03:33] Okay. 

[00:03:33] Roula: So you and I have a big argument and Joe, you feel like, because it's, I think the kind of person you are, as far as I know, 

[00:03:43] Rosie: you would 

[00:03:43] Roula: not talk to me unless I apologize to you. 

[00:03:46] Rosie: Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm holding a grudge. 

[00:03:49] Roula: And I'm proud. I don't want to apologize. In the old days, I would say, sorry, and you would be happy.

[00:03:57] Right. I've learned not to do this. I can do better. So what I do, I come to you and I tell you, instead of saying, sorry, I did this or sorry for, sorry for making you upset. Then I put it all on you again. I would say, you know, my behavior was not nice. I could do better. Wow. Because it's, it's how I behave that offended you.

[00:04:26] Otherwise we wouldn't be friends. For example, I wouldn't be having my partner with me if I'm the shitty one. No, it's my behavior that is shitty. And in this situation, you can apply this to everything. If you bump into people is instead of saying, sorry, you can say, are you okay? 

[00:04:45] Rosie: Yeah. 

[00:04:46] Roula: Or, you know, did I hurt you?

[00:04:47] Yeah. Cool. something more thoughtful. We don't have to say, sorry, if I'm late, and this is a cliche because you can see it everywhere. I would say, thank you for waiting. 

[00:04:59] Rosie: this is fascinating because when you said, the hypothetical, you and I having an argument and you wouldn't say, sorry, I thought, Oh, here we go.

[00:05:08] How could you possibly say anything that's going to resolve the situation? But the example you gave, I was like, Oh, actually, I think I'd respond quite well to that. But I also think that saying the words, I'm sorry, I think it's appropriate in certain situations. However, you need to know what you're sorry for.

[00:05:27] It's not just, I'm sorry to placate the other person. 

[00:05:31] Roula: It hurts more when you say, sorry, and we don't recognize the behavior we did that hurt or offended or et cetera. It's even hurts more because your story is fine. That's going to happen again. Right. It's bullshit. It is going to happen again. Even when I recognize my behavior, I do think when I repeat my behavior over and over every time I make a mistake or every time I offend someone, whatever, repeating it, it helps me have insight in what I'm doing.

[00:06:03] Rosie: Yeah. 

[00:06:04] Roula: Sorry is, doesn't help. To get your point, make the episode more light. Yes. We can say sorry. Um, like for whatever. I really can't remember because I haven't said sorry for such a long time, but my relationships are better. 

[00:06:21] Rosie: That's it. Sorry. That is so interesting. So what's your advice to people?

[00:06:26] Cause your question to me was how do we stop saying sorry? So what's your takeaway here? 

[00:06:33] Roula: My takeaway is that we don't have to say sorry for our ourselves and what we do and we are late and we put the cup in the wrong place or I didn't call you back. Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't call you back. I was so busy.

[00:06:45] It's just shut up. Now you called me. You don't have to apologize. You know, just continuously apologizing. Some people enter a room. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Sorry for what? Sorry for what? 

[00:07:01] Rosie: Sorry for your existence? 

[00:07:02] Roula: Like it's ridiculous. Exactly. So I want people to think before they say sorry, love themselves before they say sorry and feel that whatever they're doing is fine.

[00:07:16] They have their reason. I'm not talking about hurting others, as I said, when there's an argument that's totally different situation. I'm talking about this, this light sorry that I hear it 100, 000 times per day from random people. And it annoys me. I don't know if I'm giving it advice here. I'm just having a rant.

[00:07:37] It annoys 

[00:07:38] Rosie: me. Freaking hell. No, it annoys me too. And over the past 12, 18 months in particular, I've been really conscious of it and pull myself up. I'm like, Hey, why did I just say sorry? I got nothing to be sorry for. So sometimes I'll just be quiet and not say anything or other times it's a thank you or just something more thoughtful.

[00:08:00] Roula: Yeah, sometimes it's a thank you. It's more to thank you than a sorry. Isn't that interesting? You'd think those things are opposite. And how would it affect? 

[00:08:08] Rosie: Yeah. How empowering is that? You walk into a room and you go, thank you for waiting. You've got the power then. I, I had a meeting recently, um, for some legal advice.

[00:08:22] And it was a virtual meeting and I was having technical difficulties and I usually turn up five minutes early, very punctual. I rocked up, it was two minutes past and I was really flustered and usually old me would have said, Oh, I'm so sorry I'm late. And you know what I said? I said, Oh, thank you so much for waiting.

[00:08:40] I was having some technical difficulties. She's like, Oh, that's fine. On we go. Otherwise it's this power imbalance and what for? 

[00:08:49] Roula: It's self confidence, it's power, it's control of yourself. And it gives back to the other person value. They feel valued. Because you're thanking them. They give you something and you're 

[00:09:06] thanking them.

[00:09:08] Rosie: I love this reframe and just, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to harp on this, but I remember as a kid, you know, mom and dad, if I did something wrong that upset them, they would not let me come out of my room or sort of get on with my day and play until I came and said, said, sorry. And so many times. I would just say it because I was frustrated.

[00:09:29] I'm like, just let me get on with my day and play with my friends and do the thing. So it wasn't a sincere apology. It was, I'm trying to please them so I can get on with what I want to do. And isn't that an interesting way to be raised? I think a lot of people are, this isn't an attack on my parents at all, but it's a reflection of, Hmm, that's where I started learning about saying, sorry.

[00:09:51] Roula: So how beautiful it is if we start raising our kids by not saying sorry, by recognizing their behavior and naming it and empowering them 

[00:10:01] by making also the other feel valuable and valued. We all say to our kids when they argue or they hit each other or at school or whatever. Say sorry. Come and say sorry.

[00:10:15] This is so 

[00:10:16] Rosie: And how often do they actually mean it, Rula? How often do they mean it when they say sorry? Yeah. 

[00:10:21] Roula: It hurts their ego. First we're telling them to say sorry. They don't agree with it because they feel hurt. And we don't give them the time to reflect on their behavior. We want them now to find a solution and say sorry.

[00:10:35] So I end this on the note of Stay in control and make the other feel valued. 

[00:10:44] Rosie: Yes, and yourself. No sorry. No sorry. Rula, I'm not sorry. Fuck yeah. Great. And I'm not sorry for swearing. We have to talk about swearing. No no no no no no no no. Bye! Bye.

[00:10:58] If you got a kick out of our conversation today, can you pretty please hit the follow button and share it with another opinionated person? This is the easiest way for you to support the show. It also gives Rula and I the motivation to keep going. I have to 

[00:11:14] Roula: stop you there. Stop telling people what to do.

[00:11:17] If they like to follow the show and share it, it's totally up to them. Guys, please, can you help us follow and share the show? Thank you so much. See you next time.