183: Why The Middle Finger Isn't Actually Offensive

Roula (00:04)
quick note before rolling this episode, it's not going to make much sense unless you're watching the video version on YouTube. We're talking about gestures in different cultures and silly us, we weren't really keeping in mind our audio listeners. So you can try giving it a listen. ⁓ Otherwise, please jump over to YouTube and subscribe over there because then you get to see all our funny facial expressions and

make sense of this episode where we're talking about gestures and not explaining it to you. Right, here we go.

Roula (00:51)
Okay, a question.

Rosie (00:54)
⁓ yeah? What's on your mind, Roula?

Roula (00:55)
Yeah, okay. have

So you're from a culture, I'm from a culture, and we live in an environment so diverse. all, you know, people have gestures in different cultures that mean different things. Right. And these gestures can be nice or not. So, for example, if I do this.

Rosie (01:07)
Mmm.

Okay, yeah. Right.

Roula (01:26)
What does this mean to you? Like you know, with my three fingers.

Rosie (01:29)
It's not something,

this is something, we have a lot of ⁓ like Italian and Greek people here and like, isn't it in Italian, it's like, fangula, like fuck you, you know, like it's really in your face. But what culture are you using that from? I might do that if I'm being really passionate, like I'm doing it now, like I'm really passionate about something. I'm not saying fuck you, but I'm really like, listen.

Roula (01:43)
⁓

So in...

in the Lebanese culture and Middle Eastern culture it means, depends how you do it, means good things, never bad things so if I do like this it means slow down, slow down or I'm telling you to wait or I'm saying ⁓ so good

Rosie (02:01)
⁓ Okay.

Uh-huh.

⁓

Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (02:14)
So this

doesn't mean anything bad except really good things. Yeah. ⁓ Sometimes I find myself doing like this for my children and they were like, don't you have words? Because in the Netherlands, you don't have hand signs. In the Netherlands.

Rosie (02:17)
Yeah, ⁓

Are they confused?

Yes, some cultures

don't use their hands a lot, do they? I'm finding I'm doing that. Do I usually do this hand? Do I do that a lot? Okay, it's just because you've brought it to my attention. Okay. Isn't that funny?

Roula (02:36)
No.

No. Yeah.

That's culture. They don't speak with their hands at all.

Rosie (02:50)
Wow, interesting. What other ones? ⁓ you know what, hang on, hang on, hang on. I need your take on this, because some people, we spoke about the thumbs up emoji, but what about in real life, if you go, like, if you do a thumbs up, is that something you have encountered before, and how would you interpret that?

Roula (02:54)
Other one. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Mmm.

Okay, based on the episode we made and the thoughts that I have now, it can sometimes be passive aggressive, like, huh, like whatever you say. Yeah, yeah, like whatever. I don't have time for you, so whatever.

Rosie (03:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Good for you, yeah.

Yeah, it's ever since our episode, I've been like, I questioned the thumbs up thing. Like I do it, I'm like, yeah, awesome. Let's do it. Like I use it in not a passive aggressive way, but I think a lot of people do. So that's, that's one I have to watch. Yeah.

Roula (03:43)
Yeah, yeah.

The one gesture that I don't use and when I use, hate myself for it. I really don't like it is sticking out the middle finger.

Rosie (03:54)
Hmm.

⁓ really? Say more.

Roula (04:01)
I find

it easier for me to say to someone, fuck you, than raising my middle finger. I don't know why. Sometimes, Rosie, even, I test it in front of the mirror to see how does it look. And then not one way I do it, it looks correct.

Rosie (04:19)
It looks, it looks weird.

No, yeah, like, yeah, I don't know. Why do you hate yourself when you do it though? I'm so curious on that. Very strong reaction.

Roula (04:30)
Okay,

I do have a thought why I hate it and why I don't do it. This is the first time Rosie that I say it out loud. Okay, because I don't have a dick.

Rosie (04:36)
Okay. Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Roula (04:48)
and I

associate this

with someone telling you you're a dick.

Rosie (04:58)
⁓ I thought you would-

Roula (04:58)
And excuse me,

I know, just like we say to women, you're a bitch with some men, they are used to tell them you're a dick as an insult, which should not be an insult actually. Yeah, this is why probably.

Rosie (05:07)
Yeah

You know what I thought you were gonna say as you were talking? Because I was trying to think ahead. You know, sometimes you're like, what are they saying? And you try to go ahead. I thought you were gonna say it's shaped, like it's a bit phallic. I thought you were gonna say it's shaped a bit like a penis and balls or something weird. But that's not where you were going at all. No.

Roula (05:28)
Yeah, no,

Well, it does represent that shape, I think.

Rosie (05:36)
Yeah, I kind of don't want to do it anymore.

Roula (05:39)
And I don't know, like, what does it mean? So what... I don't know.

Rosie (05:44)
To me it means fuck you, that's what that means. That

means fuck you. But I also sometimes do it in a...

friendly way like this does not make sense yeah like if you say something like you've proven me wrong and I'm like for god like damn it okay ⁓ fuck yeah and it's like a term of endearment and my god you got me good there or sometimes I'll use it I'm frustrated fuck yeah yeah you know so it's so interesting how we use language

Roula (05:56)
⁓ fuck you.

Yeah.

When someone gets angry and they can't find the words, let's say someone is driving and another person cut you off and you put your head out of the window and you stick your middle finger out, it's a language. It's a frustration language. I just can't, I don't know what to say. And imagine children at a certain age at school, they come home and they would say to the parents, which my kids also did this to me, that and that they just give

Rosie (06:26)
Mmm.

Boom.

Roula (06:50)
their middle finger.

At a very young age, they know already that that's not a good sign and it's bad to do it. It's like cursing words. yeah, it's a finger like any other finger. I don't know.

Rosie (06:59)
Mmmmm

Yeah.

has so much meaning. Well,

yeah, but if it was a finger like any other, why don't you feel comfortable doing it? It's so interesting.

Roula (07:16)
Yeah, because of what it represents.

Rosie (07:17)
do it a lot but

so to you it represents someone calling you a dick is that right and you don't have a dick so you're like well what do you mean

Roula (07:24)
Yeah.

I don't find it insulting even doing it for someone. I don't find it insulting. I don't find it expressing anything.

Rosie (07:36)
Okay. It's just

like someone saying penis. Is that kind of what it's like? You're like, okay, great.

Roula (07:39)
No!

I do the peace sign actually much more. Like, hello!

Rosie (07:51)
See you!

Roula (07:54)
⁓ yeah, so maybe we should replace it with... instead of... Vagina!

Rosie (08:01)
Vagina!

⁓ my god, that's hilarious. Listeners, please do let us know what are some hand gestures from your culture or just that you use that might be misunderstood? I don't know. Actually, I think one the Italians do is they do the under the chin one. Like I think that's one. I think that's rude. I can't remember. I don't do that. The arm gesture. Yeah, I don't know.

Roula (08:08)
you

does this mean?

Yeah, is

it also Italian? What's wrong with the Italians? Why do they have to insult?

Rosie (08:37)
Okay, let's go back. I'm really sorry for

people listening who don't watch. Let's just go back. When I was talking about the Italian one, I had my hand under my chin and I was like flicking it forward. And then Roula said, well, who does this? And did the whole bicep thing where you lift it up and, you know, use your other arm to, I don't know, whatever you do. Yeah, to hit it. So anyway, let us know your gestures and how do you interpret the middle finger? Are you like Roula and you're just confused? Like, great, you're announcing penis, dick.

Roula (08:54)
to hit it. I don't know why. Yeah.

Rosie (09:08)
I dare you, Roula next time someone does it, just go vagina and hold up the peace sign.

Roula (09:13)
There is one about about insulting words that really don't make sense. So I was listening to a live performance ⁓ of Queens of the Stone Age, and this was probably in the 90s. And it was a live song. And someone threw something at Josh Homa. Josh Homa, name.

Or just was throwing water and bottle of waters at him. And then the singer of the Queens of the Stone Age said to his with the mic and said to that person, so what do you, should I get you? Here you go. This is a bag of dicks, you assholes. then. And like bag of dicks throwing at someone. I had to stop.

Rosie (09:39)
Mmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roula (10:05)
and think about it. What an insult. It's like, why is this an insult?

Rosie (10:07)
Because for you it wasn't a bad thing.

There's a lot of

insults like that actually, like dickhead or stopping such a cock or a... Yeah, or people say like big penis syndrome or big dick syndrome. Like, that is interesting. Big dick energy, I feel like that's the Gen Z way of saying it. ⁓

Roula (10:27)
Peace.

⁓

Gen Z, this is what they say use big dick anime. No, no.

Rosie (10:35)
Have you heard of it? Yeah. ⁓

so often it's when someone, I'm going to explain it wrong, but I don't know, someone can correct us. I think it's when a guy's really talking himself up, like coming across really arrogant and big dick energy means that like compensating for something. Trying to put across this big dick energy. Cause having a big penis is like the epitome of men.

Roula (10:59)
Mm.

yeah so sad yeah shall we on this note end the episode for our podcast and stay on tiktok

Rosie (11:07)
think that's ⁓

wrap it up and I'm

gonna do a gesture already. I'm gonna do the heart sign. Actually before I do it on the count of three hold up with your hands how you do a heart. One, two, three.

Roula (11:25)
I like this one better. ⁓ you just.

Rosie (11:27)
You like that one better. So I'm using all my

fingers and Roula, what did you use? Just your point of the finger and your thumb. Is that what you did? Yeah. You like mine better. Okay. you know what I've seen on TikTok, another way of doing a heart. You use your thumb and point of finger, but like this on the same hand. Yeah. I don't know how to describe that one to our listeners, but anyway.

Roula (11:32)
Yeah, but this is better.

Doop doop doop doop doop doop doop

That's so cute! Yeah.

I do have a

bag of heart stickers, not the bag of big, no, a bag of heart stickers somewhere on my desk. All right. Thank you.

Rosie (11:56)
I thought you were gonna say a bag of dicks!

Let's wrap this episode up. We'll

catch you in the next one.